The Truth Behind Alabama's 12 Claimed National Championships
by War Eagle Atlanta on Nov 23, 2008 11:15 PM CST
59 comments
(Editor's note: This column was published last year, late into Iron Bowl week, but is coming back for it's sophmore year because it has a FULL three years of eligibility remaining!)
As Auburn fans, you've had an Alabama fan throw in your face the claim of them having 12 national championships more times than you care to count. You're bound to have that happen a few times this week. After all. it's the biggest thing we covet from Bammers, right, other than their SEC crowns, winning percentage, bowl games attended, Bryant legacy, way of life, yada, yada, yada? But have you really ever thought about if what they're telling you is true? Even better, do you think they've ever thought about the validity of a such a claim? Or do you just assume they've drunk from the big keg of crimson Kool-aid so often that they're a bit woozy and delusional? It's so automatic, and so parroted by so many of their fans, it has to be true, right? Well, today we're going to answer that very question, and what you read here may surprise you.
First thing's first. We're going to have to start with a little background information before we start analyzing each of Alabama's claimed mythical national championships (MNCs). This background will take you to virtually the beginning of college football. Bear with me! (pun intended)
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP IN DIVISION 1-A COLLEGE FOOTBALL
Yes, that is true. The NCAA does not officially sanction a national championship in football's highest classification, like it does for every other team sport and all other classes of football. You should know this. That's why we're always arguing for a playoff to decide the NC rather than letting the polls decide it. But wait, you argue, someone is crowned the MNC each year and every year since. True enough, but it is done by the individual poll or sanctioning body (BCS) AND NOT THE NCAA. The two current big polls, the AP and the Coach's poll sanction their own champion, sometimes independently. Their polls are so widely acclaimed and accepted, everyone just assumes that they are official, but their authority is only apparent.
SO HOW DID THESE POLLS COME TO BE AND WHY ARE THERE SO MANY NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP SELECTORS OUT THERE?
Here's your brief history of the polls and the national championship: College football dates back until 1869, and it took root in the south in the 1890s. For many decades following it's inception, there was no such thing as a national college football champion. With the birth of the Southern Intercollegiate Athletic Association, the first athletic conference in the nation, the highest honor for a team to strive for was a conference championship, and wins over their biggest rivals. It was more or less a regional thing. By the early 1930s, sufficient interest in college football was beginning to build so that people started openly asking who the best team in the nation might be. Thus, the modern news polls were born. The AP poll debuted in 1934, took 1935 off, then ran again in 1936 and every year since. The UP poll debuted in 1935, then didn't poll again until 1950. In 1958, it became the UPI poll, which most of us remember, and it ran until 1996. By 1997, it had been supplanted by the new USA Today/ESPN poll, otherwise known as the coach's poll, which still runs today.
So, to repeat, prior to the AP and UPI poll debuts, there was no such thing as a recognized national championship. (NOTE: The Dickinson System was created in 1926 and was actually the first selector of football national champions, but they fizzled out by 1940, so I do not recognize their limited results as being credible.) . Once these polls had been out for a while and started to gain a little credibility, some folks started to theorize about who might have been the best teams in the seasons prior--going all the way back to the 1860s. Gee, we played 60 years before and never had a national champion, it might be fun to look back and see who might have been. So that the news polls wouldn't have all the fun, a multitude of other selectors' slowly arose, some using mathematical models in an attempt to statistically calculate who the strongest team of a given year might be. These many selectors then made their respective picks, not always agreeing, since there were upwards of 30 or more selectors in the business after a few years, just as there are over 30 different selectors TODAY. Did any of these selectors have any more credibility than the news polls? No, but it was sure evident that there was now more than one game in town.
With the influx of so many national championships coming from this mix of independent selectors, it's only natural that teams who were being awarded MNCs years after the fact might actually decide to accept these newfound accolades. But not so fast, my friend! These titles were never decided on the field. The teams playing in that season were not aware that there was any national title on the line. There was no national polling system at that time ranking each team week by week, using the dynamics of that particular season. They were all chosen years or decades AFTER THE FACT! Therefore, since a significant national polling system wasn't created until 1934, any claims of a national championship prior to that is absolutely NOT CREDIBLE by any standard used today or since the dawn of the news polls. These MNCs are known as BACK-DATED titles, a term you'll need to remember because you'll see a few of them on Alabama's title resume.
These back-dated titles are claimed by some self-serving schools because some minor selector awarded the team an insignificant championship using non-uniform and statistically un-credible crieria well after the fact. Some of these selectors even bypassed using statistics at all and simply voted popularly for teams years later. Suffice it to say that since these selectors chose sometimes decades after the fact, the results are simply not worthy of any merit. Any team that claims a back-dated title is just trying to pad the old resume. But who's going to question it 50 or 80 years after the fact, other than the most ardent student of CFB history?
Most of these early selectors have faded into history, although some still survive, and new ones are born every year. As long as there is so much ambiguity in Division 1-A's football champion, these selectors will attempt to carve out their little piece of significance. Today we basically only recognize the AP and Coach's Poll/BCS as being legitimate. All the others run by the wayside. But remember this: just because you've never heard of a particular MNC selector, it doesn't mean that some team somewhere isn't claiming the results as part of their football lore.
The problem with all these selectors is that in years past, it wasn't always clear who the most credible selectors were as it is now. It seems very defined today, but back then the AP and UPI hadn't yet attained the stature that they did in later years, and sometimes teams were declared NCs as a result of the preponderance of minor selectors choosing them. It's extremely hard to gauge the strength of claims decades ago without knowing the public opinion of the day. Nowadays, it's clear-cut and defined. We have the AP and the Coach's Poll/BCS, period! It doesn't matter how many other selectors you've never heard of chose your team as NC, no one is going to respect/recognize it.
And that's good enough for the present day, but we still have the lingering question of how to judge teams' historical performances when they claim a bunch of bogus titles? How glorious was a NC in 1964 when 5 teams claimed it? The only thing I see to do is to draw the line between the AP and Coach's poll all the way back to the beginning, and then nothing before. To my satisfaction, 1934 is when NCs began.
SO AT WHAT POINT IN THE SEASON DID THE POLLS PROCLAIM THEIR NATIONAL CHAMPION?
You're not going to believe this, but the standard practice for decades was to declare the national champion PRIOR TO THE BOWL GAMES. The AP poll took it's final vote prior to the bowl game every year until 1968; however, in 1965, they picked after the bowls, and then continued this practice in 1969 and every year thereafter. The UP/UPI poll choose before the bowls all the way up until 1974, in the wake of the controversy of Alabama being awarded a MNC after they lost to AP champion Notre Dame in the Sugar Bowl the year before.
Why award a championship prior to the bowl games? Well it sounds strange today, but the reason they did this initially was that bowl games didn't have the same importance that they do today. Initially it was more or less a meaningless 'reward' game for a team with a good season, a chance to perhaps play a non-regional team in an 'exhibition'-style game. Only later did bowl games become a de-facto one game playoff to see if anyone could be left standing to claim the mythical 'national championship'. Before that, bowls were just gravy--a bonus. The regular season, however, was what mattered. If you had a good record, defeated your rivals, and won your conference, it was a successful season.
OKAY, WE GOT THE HISTORY LESSON. NOW TELL US WHY SOME OF ALABAMA'S TITLES ARE FRAUDS!
Glad you asked. Alabama claims national titles for the following years: 1925, 1926, 1930, 1934, 1941, 1961, 1964, 1965, 1973, 1978, 1979, 1992. Other than the first three, we'll go over each season individually.
1925, 1926, 1930. All back-dated titles. These titles were awarded years after the fact. Four teams could claim a back-dated title in 1925, eight teams in 1926, and two in 1930. See how inconsistent back-dated titles were? Doesn't matter. They don't really exist. Pure and simple resume embellishment. Some Bama fans try to justify these years by pointing out that they were awarded following Alabama wins in the Rose Bowl. Sorry. Even had there been an established MNC poll system during that time, the polls would continue to declare national champions BEFORE the bowls for the next 40 years. Nice revisionist try, but strike 3 titles from Bama's record.
1934--The first year for the AP poll, given to Minnesota. Alabama received 11 selectors choosing them, but I'm sure most of them were back-dated--impossible to know for sure. Minnesota had 29 selectors, most of them probably back-dated, but they got the only one that counted--the AP. Strike another title from Bama's record.
1941--The most egregious of Alabama's bogus titles. Alabama finished the season with 2 losses and ranked #20 in the final AP poll. But one of the minor selectors out of over 30 chose Alabama, and evidently, that's the only excuse they needed. Five other teams that year would have a superior claim over Alabama's if you counted minor selectors, but we don't. I'm not really sure how many years after the fact Bama raised this banner, but you can bet it was many--so that not many people might notice. Strike another title from their record--we're on a roll--up to five gone now!
1961--Ahh, the beginning of the Bear era, and the golden age of Tide football. Alabama was pretty much a consensus champion, with both of the major polls, the AP and UPI went their way. Some minor selectors chose Texas and Ohio State, but this title is solid. Score one legitimate title!
1964-- A 10-1 Alabama team claims a national title in 1964 in spite of an 11-0 Arkansas team having a better claim. Here, an instance of both the AP and UPI, which voted Alabama # 1 that year, still voting prior to the bowl game. Had the polls been conducted after the bowls, then I'm sure it would have been a consensus Arkansas pick because Alabama lost to Texas in the Orange bowl, but Arkansas beat Texas during the regular season. I recognize Alabama's title because that was the rules that were in place at the time. Chalk up another legitimate title for the Tide, although a modern-day jury would probably confer it on Arkansas.
1965--The first of Alabama's supposed two back-to-back titles. It was a split decision between the 9-1-1 Tide, who dropped the first game to Georgia and tied Tennessee, winning the AP title, and Michigan State, 10-1, dropping the Rose Bowl, winning the UPI crown--again, bestowed BEFORE the bowl games, while the AP that year was done afterwards. Two other teams, Arkansas and Dartmouth, also got a few minor selectors to choose them, but an AP title is gold, so score another legitimate title for the Tide, now up to three.
1966--Okay, Alabama does not claim this year as a national title, but here's the really strange part: Curiously, Alabama got shafted in 1966 by both the AP and UPI despite going 11-0 but finishing behind in both polls to Notre Dame and Michigan State, both who were 9-0-1 (yes, they tied each other) What's even stranger is that Alabama didn't claim a title anyway, considering that some minor selectors did choose them as national champs and that's seemingly all you need if you're Alabama. Yea, I think they may claim this one on a T-Shirt or ball cap, but the university doesn't officially recognize it. A book, The Missing Ring, commemorates that year. The team can probably blame George Wallace and the state of the civil rights struggle in Alabama at that time for being shunned.
1973--Alabama goes 11-1 and is chosen by the UPI. Notre Dame goes 11-0 and is crowned by the AP as NC. Who did the Irish beat in the Sugar Bowl? Why, Alabama--for their only loss. Why in the hell did Alabama get a national championship after losing their bowl game to the real national champion? Because the UPI was still choosing their champion BEFORE the bowl games. How crazy is that? Pretty crazy, by today's standards. If Alabama had any sense of decency, they would refuse to claim 1973 as a title year since they lost the de facto national championship game to the real champions, but since those were the rules at the time, I begrudgingly recognize this MNC. One good thing did come out of this fiasco though: the UPI quit choosing their champ before the bowl games after this one. Score four.
1978--Split title year, AP going to Alabama, and the UPI going to USC. A funny thing happened on the way to Legion Field, however. Alabama LOST to USC at home during the regular season. But alas, USC lost a regular season game too, and the two teams did not meet in a bowl game. So be it. Chalk up title number five to Bama, even if they did share it with a team they lost to at home.
1979--The goal-line stand title, against Penn State in the Sugar Bowl. Most of us remember watching that game. Alabama was 12-0 and took all the marbles and most of the selectors. No argument here. Score number six in legitimate titles!
1992--Alabama's only 'modern' day title, complete with all the 24 hour media attention afforded 'national championship' bowl match-ups, in this case a beat-down of Miami in the Sugar Bowl. Absolutely no doubt. Final tally to date, seven legitimate MNCs.
SO THERE YOU HAVE IT?
Yes, in this man's opinion. Any of the facts I give can be readily checked. Know this though: If you try to throw all of this in some Bammer's face, you're not going to accomplish anything. Denial is too strong a sentiment and this is way too much evidence to the contrary of their status quo. It has to sink-in on them. Just like you can't give starving people a steak dinner suddenly, you have to work on your favorite Bammer gradually. But chances are, most of them have little idea of the history of their team and the true facts of their self-appointed accolades.
We'll never straighten this mess out. The NCAA will never touch it. They may sanction a playoff one day, but they will never go back and declare retroactively what titles can be claimed by what teams. Some years in the past, 5-7 teams claim a national championship for a given year. There's just too much ambiguity in all this.
WELL WHAT ABOUT AUBURN? YOU'VE ONLY WON ONE TITLE, WHICH IS WAY LESS THAN OUR 12 OR 7 OR HOW THE HELL EVER MANY YOU THINK WE HAVE!
True, we only claim one, but know this: If we used the University of Alabama method of determining MNCs, which is claiming back-dated titles and claiming titles awarded by minor, inferior selectors, we could claim six--1913, 1914, 1957, 1983, 1993, 2004. Thankfully, we take the high road and do not! The university officially recognizes only ONE--1957.
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Some additional words on this interesting and timely subject.
I was listening to WNSP sports radio this monring on the way to work. They were interviewing Barry Kraus, one of the former Tide players involved in the infamous Goal Line Stand against Penn State in the late 70’s. Mr. Kraus is also an author and is widely considered to be an “expert” on the subject of Crimson Tide Football.
During the course of the interview Mr. Kraus stated the he refuses to recognize Auburn’s 1957 MNC because as he says “Auburn was playing under a different name (API) at that time.” So as he says “it doesn’t count.”
About the time that I started to get really steamed, it dawned on me that Barry may actually have a legitimate point. You see, if what Barry says is true, then none of BAMA’s MNC’s should be recognized since they are not BCS sanctioned MNC’s. Since the BCS (established in 1998) is the current defacto standard used to determine MNC’s, by Barry’s rules it can be logicall inferred that both Auburn and Alabama are on equal footing, and each school has exactly ZERO MNC’s after having both played over 100 years of football.
I feel that we all owe a tremendous debt of gratitude to Mr. Krauss for revealing this most important fact and forever setting the record straight. I only wish that we had his e-mail address so that we could flood him with e-mails to show him our appreciation.
WAR DAMN EAGLE, Barry!!!
Kraus'es quote...
…is about the lamest thing I’ve heard in quite a while…
by War Eagle Atlanta on Nov 24, 2008 11:12 AM CST up reply actions
Sad really
The first time i saw an article about this i did a little research myself. Some of those back-dated titles were by polling systems i couldn’t even find information on. And sure it was the system back when they chose a MNC before the bowl games but if you lose that bowl game to the other champion and still claim the MNC, I mean come on. How sad is that. Or claiming one over a team the beat you in the season. Hell i think they didnt claim the one in ’66 in order to give them more leverage on the others that they claimed. “We didnt even claim one that everyone knows we should have gotten”….hehe. I swear these people go through a brain washing session as a child that looks similair to Clockwork Orange. Only theres no porn and its all alabama lore.
I can agree with 7
Show me a newspaper that claims you are the national champion when it happens (thus no retroactive titles). All pre-1998 AP, UPI, and coaches titles should count regardless of when they were decided (before or after the bowls). Post-1998 only BCS championships count. Sorry 2003 USC, you can’t claim the AP title as it is meaningless now.
On another note, I think any undefeated team that plays in a conference should be a national champion. The BCS needs some tweaking that includes these teams even if they are just lowly Ball State. Let Alabama expose Ball State, but give them a chance.
I voted A
I don’t care what they claim. Hell, if they’ve already claimed 2008, so be it. Let them boost their own egos a little bit.
War Damn Eagle!
by PowerOfDixieland on Nov 24, 2008 10:27 AM CST reply actions
Well truthfully, I just feel sorry for Alabama fans
I mean, they had the college football world on a string years ago. They could recruit whomever they wanted, they could cheat to their heart’s desire without getting punished, and they basically owned southern college football in the mid-20th century. If you grew up knowing that lifestyle or have heard stories about it, you think it’s going to come back.But it’s not. Nobody can have a dynasty in college football anymore. You may have one awesome season, but chances are, you’re going to go right back down the pecking order the next season. It must drive Alabama fans crazy to know that they aren’t the class of the SEC anymore, and Auburn has caught them in everything. It must suck to be them!
War Damn Eagle!
by PowerOfDixieland on Nov 24, 2008 10:40 AM CST up reply actions
BLASPHEMY!!!
but i will let it go for now. lets say you are right about our national titles( even though you are wrong) even if so, does alabama or auburn have a better program? none of you looney toons could say with a straight face that you have the better program!!!
Better program?
It depends on how you define “program.” If you are talking current wins, then yes UAT has the better “program” right now. If you are talking overall in the present and recent past, I think Auburn is a little ahead of UAT. If you go too far in the past then you are talking “had” the better program versus “has” the better program. How many more wins does Auburn have over the last 5, 10, or 15 years? How many Auburn players were arrested in the last 12 months? How many more Auburn players graduated in the last 5, 10, or 15 years? How much trouble has Auburn been in with the NCAA over the last 5, 10, 15 years?
Yes, UAT wins the better “program” argument if wins is all it’s about.
by jimithing78 on Nov 24, 2008 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
We have a better program (No smirk necessary)
reference the last 6 years the proof is in the pudding
Gotta Love those "classy" Tide Detergent Box Hats
What is pathetic is you two tag teaming on the site
like you do in the bedroom. You ask a question and then jump in with the response before anyone has had a chance to even read your post. I would def say that you have had the better year and your program has looked much better, but if you actually read the post you would know that this relates to your national championships, which bama fans cling to like the holy grail despite the fact that two thirds of your fan base wasn’t even alive at the time they took place. It is funny, now that bama “is back” (along with the McRib) all you here is how great bama is NOW. Last year and all the years leading up to it when bama struggled, all you heard was how good bama WAS.
At the end of the day it doesnt really matter what happened 10, 20, 30 years ago, what matters is what happens now. bama has had a hell of a year and maybe they will win the national champ, if so good for you, but come the first game next year it wont mean shit, just like the ones you claim or dont claim now. It always reminds me of notre dame when the bammers get their panties in a wad over some MNC shit that happened long before they ever walked this earth. Is that really who you wanna be?
Mmmm
I love some McRibs. I wish they’d put it on the regular menu.
by jimithing78 on Nov 24, 2008 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
Whatever AU
This crap is really old. I used to care when you guys made excuses about our championships, but now I really don’t care. We have 12 MNCS and we are 11-0 and looking for #13. Either way Alabama is, and always will be more than Auburn. Everyone(excluding AU fans) knows that.
KAREEM JACKSON!!!! THATS MY BOY!!!!
Well why do you feel the need to post
if you don’t care and everyone knows?
by GumptownTiger on Nov 24, 2008 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
How do you spell denial?
“B-a-m-a-b-r-a-v-e-4”
War Damn Eagle!
by PowerOfDixieland on Nov 24, 2008 2:22 PM CST up reply actions
Ugly Little Red-headed Step Child Syndrome in Action!
After reading yet another enviously inferior blog discrediting Alabama’s past accomplishments by yet another enviously inferior Alabama-Tech fan (no surprise), I’ve come to the conclusion that if little man’s syndrome was a crime, Opelika, as a whole, would be deserted population wise, simply because all of their Wire Road inhabitants would’ve been sentenced to death long ago
Dear Mrs. War Eagle Atlanta,
After reading your enlightening poem moronically proclaiming Alabama’s 12 National Championships are a joke, I certainly hope that you, or your children who are potential tPolyTECHnic Institute of Alabama students, will at least receive a free class credit or degree for this monumental discovery!
Not to intentionally piss on your parade (which I’m sure another rodeo is in the works), but perhaps I should enlighten you with all the facts on why Alabama can rightfully claim the championships that they do. Oh, and you may want to stick around because I’ll fill you in on some of APIs’ flaws as well.
So where to begin?
First and foremost, why the hell is a Barnie so concerned with ANOTHER TEAM’S LEGITIMATE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS? Were you born yesterday? Folks, this is a PRIME EXAMPLE of little man’s syndrome at its finest! Like I said, I surely hope you did in fact receive a free class credit from The Alabama PolyTECHnic Institute for at least giving the rest of the dysfunctional backwoods, Opelika Barnie fan base something to chatter about, because we all know they enjoy talking more about Alabama, the fatherly institute, more than they do themselves: Alabama-Tech.
I have a few FACTS for you that you may find enjoyable. I was also kind enough to provide you with facts from your very own delusional program:
Illegitimate? Isn’t that how you guys go about claiming legitimate “SEC” titles. It’s hilarious hearing a FAN of a team who only has half of one question the credibility of another team’s titles. Then again, Barnies have a strong record of taking every futile stab at Alabama, just to bring them down to their level. Once again they fall flat on their face at yet another failed attempt!
To begin, in case you didn’t know, prior to the AP/UPI title era, the Rose Bowl was deemed the heavyweight bowl and the winner was considered “Champions of the Universe.” This is why whomever was believed to be THE TOP TWO TEAMS IN THE NATION were invited, and the winner was deemed NATIONAL CHAMPIONS of that particular season by AMERICA. Why do you think EVERY SINGLE TEAM WHO WON THE ROSE BOWL PRIOR TO THE DEBUT OF THE AP AND UPI TITLE CLAIMED CHAMPIONSHIPS FOR THE SEASONS OF WHICH THEY WON A ROSE BOWL? Why DO YOU THINK when Alabama – a Southern American team- won the Rose Bowl in 1925, such a big deal was made of it by all the Southern States? Because a Southern American team, won it all and parades and such were thrown all throughout the south, because the South had a National Champion! If you have such a problem with ALABAMA, then maybe you should also center your concerns around EVERY OTHER TEAM that rightfully recognizes themselves as "national champions" of the years they won the Rose Bowl prior to the AP and UPI era. Why do you think the history of the Rose Bowl is cherished so deeply? Why do you think all winners during that time period were deemed NATIONAL CHAMPIONS those years? Why? SIMPLY BECAUSE THAT’S HOW CHAMPIONS WERE DECIDED BACK THEN! Polls weren’t the deciding factor until the AP/UPI debuted, the deciding factor was THE TEAM THAT WON THE ROSE BOWL. Drop the act of envy, hatred, and jealousy and think for just a brief moment: Do you HONESTLY think PUBLIC UNIVERSITIES just claims outright illegitimate titles, just for the hell of it?
Here’s a detailed list of our claimed national championships and why we claim them:
1925: Rose Bowl 10-0
1926: Rose Bowl 9-0-1 (Tie game with Stanford giving BOTH TEAMS a share of the claim)
1930: Rose Bowl 10-0-0
1934: Rose Bowl 10-0
1961: AP/UPI
1964: AP/UPI
1965: AP
1973: UPI
1978: AP
1979: AP
1992: AP
If you have a problem with the AP/UPI selecting us as champions during seasons of which we had one loss, or lost our bowl game, then write the AP/UPI association and when they realize you’re a Barnie, they’ll simply laugh their heads off. Keep in mind there were MANY, MANY, MANY teams who had more losses, yet still finished ahead of other teams during this era. I’m also sure 20 years from now, Louisiana-Tech fans will bicker about LSUs’ 2007 title, seeing how they had two losses and still finished ahead of the teams that defeated them. Or even their 2003 title when they had one loss and USC had zero losses!
Logic vs. Logic:
And here’s a detailed list of all our titles of which WE WERE SELECTED BY OTHER VOTERS, but didn’t claim because we WEREN’T SELECTED BY THE MAIN POLLS (AP/UPI), which were the BCS polls of that time period. Take a VERY CLOSE look at these, sir:
1936: Alabama finishes the season 8-0-1, but didn’t claim a National Title because we finished the season ranked 4th in the AP/UPI.
1937: Alabama finishes the season 9-1, losing to USC in the Rose Bowl and ending the season ranked 4th in the AP/UPI.
1945: Alabama finished the season 10-0, blowing out USC in the Rose Bowl, but didn’t claim a title because we finished the season ranked number 2, behind number 1, Army. Some argue that the 1945 team may have been Bama’s greatest of all time. The bias officially comes into affect once again!
1962: Alabama finished the season 10-1 with a Orange Bowl victory over Oklahoma, but didn’t claim a title because we finished the season ranked fifth in AP/UPI.
1966 (See the new novel, “The Missing Ring”): The most controversial season in all of collegiate football. This is where the Northern/Western States’ bias towards the Southern States plays yet another huge roll in college football. Alabama was aiming for their third straight National Championship season. Ending the previous season ranked number 1, Alabama was questionably preseason ranked “3rd” in 1966. In the other major poll, the AP poll, Alabama started the season ranked first, but was questionable moved to third at the season’s end?!?!?! At the season’s end, we finished undefeated, destroying Nebraska in the Orange Bowl 34-7. However, first ranked Notre Dame and second ranked Michigan State intentionally played to a 10-10 tie in their final game against each other (which wasn’t even a bowl game). Instead of Alabama moving to first place, we were oddly held at third. The Southern nation always felt (and some still do) that this was done intentionally to keep a Southern team from winning their third consecutive title. In addition, a quick review of the results from BAMA’s ‘66 season shows a team that by far outclassed all of the competition it faced. Bama manhandled every opponent only giving up a total of 37 points all season long while shutting out the 7 of the 11 of the opponents they played. Fortunately, at least one well known individual of that time also felt that BAMA was a deserving team that year. Vince Lombardi , after winning the Super Bowl, was asked if the Packers had removed all doubt as to who was the best football team in the world. Lombardi replied, "Well, I don’t know. We haven’t played Alabama yet!!"
1974: Alabama finished the season ranked fifth in AP/UPI, as well as lost their bowl game against Notre Dame.
1975: Alabama finished the season 11-1 with a 13-6 victory over Penn State in the Sugar Bowl, but did not claim a title because they finished the season ranked third in AP/UPI.
1977: Alabama finished the season ranked 11-1 with a 35-6 Sugar Bowl victory over Ohio State, but did not claim a title because we finished the season ranked second in AP/UPI.
Proud API Accomplishments:
1957: The only legit title they have. Despite the fact that they finished the regular season 10-0, while on probation, they finished that season ranked number 1 in the AP poll. But allow me ask you this: If Alabama can’t claim championships because they lost their bowl games, why is it API can claim this one when THEY DIDN’T EVEN PLAY IN A BOWL GAME THAT YEAR? And to answer, it’s because prior to the 1980s, bowl games were considered “exhibition games” and the AP/UPI selected their champions AFTER the last game of the regular season was played.
1983: API’s only loss was to the Texas Longhorns, but they did in fact defeat Michigan in the Sugar Bowl. But they didn’t claim a title because they finished that season ranked third behind Miami and Nebraska. If they say they deserve the title this year, then so does Alabama for the 1975, 1977 seasons in which we finished 11-1 with a Sugar Bowl victory as well, but did not claim the title because we didn’t finish that season ranked first in the country. Not to mention the 1966 Sugar Bowl victory in which we finished the season undefeated with a Sugar Bowl victory, but was denied the title because we finished third.
1993: API finished the season “undefeated.” However, they did not compete in the SEC Championship or bowl game. They finished the season ranked “fourth, " but shouldn’t have been considered in the rankings due to it being unfair to the other teams that they did not play in a bowl game while the others did. That’s like when Alabama finished undefeated in the regular season in 1994 (which was the very next season), but lost to Florida in the SEC Championship game by ONE point. In another words, after blowing out OSU in the bowl game, we could say we were one point away from a perfect season. Since this is the case, we finished fourth in 1994, winning all of our regular season games. Therefore, we should "claim” the 1994 season as an “undefeated” season as well!
I’ll mention 2004, though nobody voted them champions, other than the Opelika/Awbarn Farmer’s Market poll. API did in fact finish the season undefeated. But a lackluster performance against a Mike Shula led, NCAA and injury beleaguered Alabama team who limped into the game with six starters out on offense, and had a third string quarterback taking the snaps; cheating to defeat Nick Saban’s LSU squad by 1 point; barely defeating Virginia Tech by 3 points; and needless to say THE SAME Alabama Tech team WAS SMASHED by the SAME USC TEAM in the two years prior to 2004, closed that case. Seriously, who throws a National Championship parade and orders National Championship rings for a team that didn’t even play for the BCS title?
Also, l’ve noticed API’s claimed SEC West titles when they didn’t even play in the championship games because of tie-breakers.
What about their six SEC titles – Prior to 1992, the first year in which the SEC Championship game was played?
1988: They shared a title with LSU, but LSU finished the season WITH MORE SEC WINS THAN API!
1989: They shared a title with Alabama, WHO HAD MORE SEC wins than they did.
And seriously, do you guys really have “2004 and 1993 Perfect Season” banners hanging on the corners of your stadium? SERIOUSLY?
Continue living in a world full of misinformation and Alabama fans, such as myself, will continue laughing at your incompetence.
It must suck living in a world where your cross state superior casts a dark, unbearable shadow over you, doesn’t it? Continue AUbsessing over The University of Alabama, because when your "precious streak" comes to an end, you’ll have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! Maybe then you guys can come up with a theory that we never played a game at all during that time period! Maybe you guys can theorize we paid the NCAA to recognize us for victories during the black and white ages. Hell, you may even say UA’s flagship was never introduced until the 1980s!!
Typical Barnie logic for you…
Well,,,,
,,,,there you have it. Another bammer with more time on his hands than he know what to do with.
Also, TaterTot,,,,,you proved my point that I made in another post. Bammers don’t even know when somebody is trying to get them stirred up.
Who cares what your opinion is? I sure don’t and just so you know,,,,,,I did not read your post because I could care less.
WAR EAGLE
Hey...
Did you read the original post? Taylor had just as much time on his hands to answer the misinformed original poster as the original poster had to write the misinformed post.
"There's a lot of blood, sweat, and guts between dreams and success" - Coach Bryant
The other one is from last year
which hestated in the first line. My guess was it was written on a weekend or out of work hours. either way I hate typing too much to ever post anything that long
by GumptownTiger on Nov 24, 2008 2:59 PM CST up reply actions
I don't get it.
…..LSU had more SEC wins than Auburn in 1988? How so? Both finished 6-1. Same for 1989. Auburn, Alabama, AND Tennessee had identical 6-1 records.
…..A 10000 word post doesn’t mean much if you just make up false postulates to base it on.
Yes,,,,,,,
I read the original post,,,,,,because I am interested in what he had to say.
And,,,,,I will say this again,,,,,,,,,,,bammers do not know when somebody is intentionally trying to get them stirred up. You proved my point my commenting on my post.
WAR EAGLE
And you've proven your point...
by commenting on my post. See how that works?
"There's a lot of blood, sweat, and guts between dreams and success" - Coach Bryant
Ok, now it's just getting childish...
"There's a lot of blood, sweat, and guts between dreams and success" - Coach Bryant
You really are a moron....
LSU and Bama finnished the seasons with more SEC wins than AU yet shared the title with them? You should check your math skills dumbass. Either AU didn’t have a share of the title or they had equal SEC wins. But to save you the time and effort AU had the same number of SEC wins in both years in question and we do not claim SEC west titles prior to ‘92. Not to mention calling us API is not an insult. As far as the ’93 undefeated season…..how do you figure we shouldn’t include that as an undefeated season tell me again which team beat us to blemish our record? As far as MNC’s AU only claims the 1957 AP championship (although we do feel deserving of chamionships for several other season and we are recorded as having several pre AP/UPI chamionships) because the others do not count or are not valid….something you idiotic houndstooth wearing peckerwoods wouldn’t understand. And you imbecile the AP started awarding its NC after the bowl games in 1965 and the UPI followed suit but not until 1974. The only reason I point this out is just to show you have no grasp of the facts you delusional cumquat. And last but not least TaylorTot the NCAA does not now nor ever has recognized a National Champion so we do not theorize that they gifted you anything. Pitiful little man.
And no I didn't read the whole moronic post....
I just scanned the poorly researched dribble to catch the most obvious falsehoods.
I would have gone to bammer if my grades hadn't been good enough to go to AU
Thanks for posting this comment yet again
What’s that like, the 3rd time? Anyway, your knowledge of MNCs is severly lacking, but I’ll take the time to school you on it in the hopes you might learn something. Normally I require payment for the lesson you’re about to receive, but consider this on the house.,
1) So you think that having only one half of an AP/UPI combo set makes the whole notion illegitimate, as you refer to our ’57 title? That will negate 5 out of 7 of your titles if you want to use that criterion. Luckily, I do not. The article says that either the AP or UPI is legit. That means plenty of split champions in a year, but two is better than six or seven.
2) As far as the Rose Bowl being a national championship game, YOU ARE FLAT OUT WRONG! That’s the kind of revisionist history that I alluded to. Sure, Alabama demonstrated great southern pride by playing in and winning those Rose Bowls, but they WERE NOT national championship games. State your source why you believe otherwise. Otherwise, we agree on the rest. And yes, I do think that public universities claim false titles—because it’s a totally unregulated business. It’s the wild west of sports and Bama is John Wesley Hardin. (who was so mean he once shot a man just for lying about national championships)
3) Okay, you want to point out that Alabama didn’t claim a MNC for a bunch of years where they didn’t finish 1st in either poll. All I can say is thanks! —on behalf of a grateful nation. But they did in 1941, so why not the rest of the years? Bammers have to answer that question, not me.I think what’s tripping you up is that you don’t know that in any given year, there are over 30 different selectors doling out awards. Bama has demonstrated that they only need one minor selector to annoit them, so sorry, I can’t tell you what Alabama’s intentions were for any given year. I only know the result.
4) I agree with you about split SEC titles under the divisional format. If you didn’t go to Atlanta, you weren’t the divisional champ! All teams claim this, however, including yours.
See? All that bonk reduced down to this retort. Notice anything different about my article and your post? Not once do I call Alabama names or make other derogatory statements. You? Well, not so much. I’m a gentleman and am educated and you’re just a hack!
And now in the fashion of T. Kyle King, you are banned!!!!
by War Eagle Atlanta on Nov 24, 2008 5:11 PM CST up reply actions
Hahaha!
Nah, I didn’t ban you. We’re not like the little tools over at Dawg sports. You can direct the criticism at me. I’m a man! I’m 40!!! (really)
by War Eagle Atlanta on Nov 24, 2008 5:13 PM CST up reply actions
This is the only year...
..where I can claim that (I’m 40!!!) and I’m trying to get as much mileage out of it as possible!
by War Eagle Atlanta on Nov 24, 2008 5:36 PM CST up reply actions
Is the text in bold
the stuff you stole from somewhere else or is the regular text what you stole and the bold is what you came up with? Plagarism is so confusing
by GumptownTiger on Nov 24, 2008 5:43 PM CST up reply actions
I would like a roll call on anyone who actually reads Tater tots post
I personally didn’t have thirty minutes to kill. I only can check the blog so often because I HAVE A JOB!
he copied and pasted
I have seen things like it before no need reading its nothing more then Alabama propaganda
Gotta Love those "classy" Tide Detergent Box Hats
Well....
I’l admit that i read it. But in my defense i only did so because Taylor was the 1st guy to actually challege this type of article. And i’ve been seeing it for a few years now. Therefore i had to know what the other side had to say about it. Did i need his abuse, probably not, but i simply couldn’t turn away….
I had to read it...
But I had read it before—every single time he posts it on here. I said I’d take on all comers…
And I did…
All that anger, though…
Did one of us Barners boink his sister?
Okay, Roll Call: Sound off if there’s a chance you might have done Tator Tot’s sister:
PRESENT
by War Eagle Atlanta on Nov 24, 2008 5:40 PM CST up reply actions
Tator Tots Sister
She was ok. Kinda just laid there
Gotta Love those "classy" Tide Detergent Box Hats
I thought about it but....
I just hadnt had enough to drink………
I would have gone to bammer if my grades hadn't been good enough to go to AU
Maybe she's that girl I saw at that bar in Tuscaloosa in 2003
I saw a girl in Tuscaloosa that was SO UGLY I couldn’t stop looking at her. It was like a train wreck. You want to look away, but you just can’t.
Note: This is not to say that all Alabama girls are ugly. I’ve seen a fair share of very attractive ladies from UAT. They really don’t do it for me. Extra/missing chromosomes aren’t really a turn-on for me
War Damn Eagle!
by PowerOfDixieland on Nov 24, 2008 6:10 PM CST up reply actions
aaahahaha....
I love AU hate week, this is what it’s all about boys, stir the pot, and only wish you could be as good as The University.
Who Alabama State, Ambridge, or South University
I’ll take any of em over bama, you arrogant sombitch
by GumptownTiger on Nov 24, 2008 3:14 PM CST up reply actions
The Real Story Is
That most of the BAMMERS live a pathetic life and are desperate for some kind of identity that they can call their own. Many of the one’s that consider themselves successful usually work an off-shift job at the local Mini Mart of Pulp Mill, or both, just to bring home enough money to make ends meet. This time of year for several hours each Saturday, they are able to break the bonds of reality and live in a fantasy world, dreaming that the Crimson Turds are as good as the traditional powers of the college football world. During those rare seasons when the conference powers (Auburn, LSU, Georgia, and Tennessee) encounter an off year, the BAMMERS love to break out the classless cheer of RAMMER JAMMER and taunt the opposing fans all the while referring to the coaches of opposing teams as classless jerks. Most of the BAMMERS have never set foot inside of the Tusculooser City Limits, much less in B.D. stadium, but they all swear that they know someone that know’s someone that knew “The Barrrrrrr”. The reason that they hang out over here is that they are desperate for some recognition and want to be able to identify with some successful folks.
Speaking B.D. stadium, it will really be funny to see all of the empty seats St. Nick burns out, leaves them empty handed, and the program returns to it’s normal state of mediocrity.
If you were to ask most BAMMERS why they are BAMMERS, most will reply “My Diddy went for BAMMER and his Diddy went for BAMMER, and his Diddy’s Diddy went for BAMMER, so I guess I’ll just go for BAMMER too.”
I say that we should pity the poor BAMMERS, because win or lose, after Saturday, they will be headed back to the reality of the double wides (homes and women) and shift work Mini Marts and Paper Mills.
They may win an occasional football game, but they will be eternal losers in the game of life!
War Dam Eagle!
You spelled "damn" wrong, buddy...
I’m just gonna go back to the mini mart now…
"There's a lot of blood, sweat, and guts between dreams and success" - Coach Bryant
Who needs spellcheck when you have bammers
most of the time their counterpoint is to point out typos, misused grammar, or bad english. Once again this is a blog. If it is ok to put lol it is ok to not spell every word correctly
by GumptownTiger on Nov 24, 2008 3:18 PM CST up reply actions
I mean...
When it’s part of your “war cry” or whatever you like to call it, it needs to be pointed out. Tell me that if I’d just slammed you livelyhood and everything you stand for, and finished it off with a “ROLL TID” that you wouldn’t call me out on it.
"There's a lot of blood, sweat, and guts between dreams and success" - Coach Bryant
No
I would have come up with something much wittier than that, but I DO see your point.
by GumptownTiger on Nov 24, 2008 3:47 PM CST up reply actions
I'll take...
…a large slurpie and a Slim Jim, please…
At least you speak English (unlike a lot of convenience store employees)
by War Eagle Atlanta on Nov 24, 2008 5:22 PM CST up reply actions
Oh yeah, and you wanted to talk about classless...
How about booing your own team. How many times have you booed your team this year like every other Tiger fan? It’s sickening to hear an entire stadium (mostly grown men) boo a bunch of 18-22 year old kids ,THAT ARE ON THE TEAM THEY ROOT FOR, like I’ve heard out of y’all since Cox’s junior year. When you sign up to play collegiate ball, you sign up for jeers from opposing teams, but from your own team? And tell me that you haven’t been a part of it. Talk about f*ing classless?
"There's a lot of blood, sweat, and guts between dreams and success" - Coach Bryant
I seem to remember lots of Booing for Sarah Jessica Parker Wilson....
in Bryant Denny……but lets not talk about that. But no I have never booed my team.
I would have gone to bammer if my grades hadn't been good enough to go to AU
When?
I can name specific games where Auburn fans have booed the team. I never recall being able to hear Alabama fans booing the team, especially not that you could hear on national television.
"There's a lot of blood, sweat, and guts between dreams and success" - Coach Bryant
I was reading how
Bill Curry got death threats when he came to bama. How classy is it to threaten to kill your head coach and his family? Or to throw rocks at his car and home? And I’m pretty sure baby shula was on the receiving end of a good many boos in his last year at bama.
by GumptownTiger on Nov 24, 2008 3:21 PM CST up reply actions
I'm talking about kids here...
No, it is not right to send death threats to coaches, and neither was JetGate, but in an industry that pays its coaches millions of dollars, that comes with the territory.
At the beginning of the year, I read an article that said that Chris Todd’s mom called Brandon Cox’s mom to see how he handled the constant ridicule, threats against his well being (she didn’t say death threats), and being booed in his own stadium, and cheering for when he got hurt. Kids don’t sign up for that kind of crap…
"There's a lot of blood, sweat, and guts between dreams and success" - Coach Bryant
But you guys did boo
TUlane’s kids, even after your AD asked you not too cause they had just been through a HURRICANE.
by GumptownTiger on Nov 24, 2008 3:48 PM CST up reply actions
I apologize
that should read “to”. Wanna get that in vbefore a warrant is issued for my arrest by the SBN grammar police
by GumptownTiger on Nov 24, 2008 3:49 PM CST up reply actions
And...
Your your AD and Dean of Students sent y’all an email asking you not to boo your OWN team, and you did it anyway, that very game.
I’m sorry that we boo and jeer the other team. I do agree that booing Tulane after a hurricane was a bit classless, but you know us shift working rednecks, we’re an unruley bunch, and most of us didn’t get the email cuz we ain’t got the internets…
"There's a lot of blood, sweat, and guts between dreams and success" - Coach Bryant
Yeah
but our AD is an asshole so most people dont listen to him. I for one am like you and never have and never would consider booing my own team, but it happens here like im sure it happens there, not this year mind you, but im sure it has happened
by GumptownTiger on Nov 24, 2008 4:11 PM CST up reply actions
I honestly can say that I've never heard Bama fans boo the team, but...
I’m sure that it has happened. It was just happening with such frequency for a while there at Auburn that some of my closest friends (Aubs) were embarrassed to say they were Auburn fans. A win this weekend would remedy that for them, I feel certain.
Good luck to y’all, Gump. Outta here for today.
"There's a lot of blood, sweat, and guts between dreams and success" - Coach Bryant
It was embarrassing
but I dont think i could ever be EMBARRASSED to be an Auburn fan. I also think that a lot of the booing you refer to may seem as if it is directed at players, but more often than not I believe those boos are meant for the coaching staff. It is unfortunate that the players are the ones on the field so it seems as though all the boos are directed at them. Either way its crap to boo your own team.
by GumptownTiger on Nov 24, 2008 4:29 PM CST up reply actions
now that's funny...
an aub calling the fan base of bammer rednecks, you’re an idiot to call any fan of any team in the SEC a redneck. All schools in the south have their fair share of ‘em, don’t be so close minded.
Your right about the other SEC schools having there fair share.....
its just that Bama in their fervor to be tops in everything went out and got more than there fair share….
I would have gone to bammer if my grades hadn't been good enough to go to AU
Your thread is the only one that explicitly refers to "rednecks".
It appears that maybe you’ve given yourself an inferiority complex.
THE POT HAS OFFICIALLY BEEN STIRRED!
LET THE GAMES BEGIN! BEST WEEK OF THE SEASON!
YOU GUYS DON'T FORGET TO VOTE
In the poll attached to this thread—even Bammers…
by War Eagle Atlanta on Nov 24, 2008 5:24 PM CST reply actions
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
Oh my, this is funny stuff! I guess you gotta tell yourself whatever you can to feel better about yourself after a year like this, huh AUBIE’s?…lolololololol. The “red-headed-step-child syndrome” is alive and well I see. Silly Barners.
Careful, your C.O. is very likely....
an Auburn graduate. But then you probably knew that didnt you seaman navytag.
I would have gone to bammer if my grades hadn't been good enough to go to AU
This is really sad..
This is coming from someone across the country that could care less. The fact that a 40 year old grown man would put this much time into making his rival seem unimportant is really sad. We call that penis envy around here. My friend goes to Auburn and the number one response I get when I tell people that is, “Where the F***K is Auburn?” Please don’t compare yourself to a program like Alabama. It’s just sad. They have alot mor cred. nationally.
Nice to see
All the bammers making up screen names to post on this What are you afraid of?
Gotta Love those "classy" Tide Detergent Box Hats
This wasn't a comparative post...
This time, it was all about YOU (Alabama)!!!
Hey, somebody has to say it. Don’t worry. I treat all embellishers equally. You guys just happen to be up this weekend.
And you know what? You’re right. Alabama does have more historic cred nationally than Auburn does. Aren’t you glad? Does hearing that make your sack quit shriveling up? You just don’t have as much as you’ve been taught you do. Sorry to piss on your parade, but it’s true. And I don’t say that as a Barner, I say that as a student of college football history.
Sorry. He brought all that groin talk in here…
by War Eagle Atlanta on Nov 24, 2008 10:50 PM CST up reply actions
Really?
You are so full of shit that my screen is turning brown. Post under your real name or don’t post at all. If you cared less then:
a) how’d you end up here?
b)why’d you bother signing up for an account and posting a comment
If you aren’t man enough to post under your name than write the paper or call finebaum. You aren’t welcome here. No matter how much shit i talk, I have way more respect for these bama fans that came here and posted their arguments, taunts, and everything else under legit names than a biatchlike you.
by GumptownTiger on Nov 24, 2008 11:23 PM CST up reply actions
That is sad.
Did any polls have them at #1? Serious question…I don’t know.
Apples to Oranges...
Giving a bunch of disappointed kids a NC ring to commemorate a great season is light years apart from claiming in front of God and country an illegitimate national crown.
At least we did it immediately, unlike Alabama, who would have waited a few decades when no one was watching…
by War Eagle Atlanta on Nov 24, 2008 10:53 PM CST up reply actions
Weird Obsession
As a neutral UGA fan I don’t understand this obsession with Bama’s titles. So what if they only have 7? That is 5 more than UGA and Auburn have together.
Of course I didn’t have to grow up in the shadow of their glory. Be proud of who you are and stop measuring yourself with a Crimson measuring stick.
From an outside point of view it just seems like Auburn has a weird obsession with them. None of our programs in the SEC will ever be able to match what they have accomplished.
Seriously, though...
Classy post. Thanks for the props.
"There's a lot of blood, sweat, and guts between dreams and success" - Coach Bryant
What you call 'obsession'...
I call an ‘accounting’…
Here’s something you should be concerned about though: Georgia Tech claims 4 MNCs, 3 of which are actually bogus. That doesn’t bother you? 75% of what they claim is crap? Read it on their marquee the next time you’re driving south on the downtown connector…
by War Eagle Atlanta on Nov 25, 2008 4:03 PM CST up reply actions
It would bother him if GT .....
fans constantly wore “Got 4” shirts and insisted on ending every sentence with “Got 4”. It is the shear obnoxiousness of the ineptitude it takes to be so pompous about trumped up facts. But like he said he is an outsider looking in hard to understand from his view.
I would have gone to bammer if my grades hadn't been good enough to go to AU
Good point, Todd
but it’s not just the shirts, it’s the bumper stickers and hats and velvet Elvis pictures on the walls…
I have two macaws at home and somehow they’ve picked up “Alabama has 12 national championships…”
I would throw those birds in a pot, but I taught them to say ‘War Eagle’, so I just couldn’t…
by War Eagle Atlanta on Nov 25, 2008 4:14 PM CST up reply actions
BTW:
You only say that I’m obsessed because I’m an Auburn fan. what if I was a Syracuse fan? I’m not the first one to question the validity of Alabama’s claims, as a quick google search reveals…
Again, another person questioning the messenger and NOT the message…
I’m thinking they may have some positions in the Obama communications office available for someone with your talent…
by War Eagle Atlanta on Nov 25, 2008 4:10 PM CST up reply actions
You misunderstand the point
The whole reason to post this was tostir the pot and get the trash talking started. What better stick to use than the crimson MNC stick? Personally I don’t care how many they claim and how many are legit cause I was still sperm for most of em.
BTW it seems to have worked. There are over 200 comments on a thread that the bammers said was stupid and not worth discussing.
by GumptownTiger on Nov 25, 2008 4:07 PM CST up reply actions
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