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When Do We Lay Blame Where It Belongs - The CEO

Let's take a look at the Auburn football program as one would examine a business.  You have the fans, the university alumni and contributors who would be equivalent to the shareholders of the company.  Then you have the Board of Directors - who are those in the Auburn administration responsible for protecting the shareholders' assets and ensure they receive a commensurate return on their investment.  They also select and evaluate the CEO, determine his compensation, and provide him with the resources necessary to perform at a level they expect .  And finally, you have the CEO.  The person whose is responsible for the operation of the 'company'.  He sets expectations, and through his actions (personnel selection, preparation, etc....), the 'standards' with which his company is run and excels.

Once again Tommy Tuberville, our CEO, has launched into the football season with the performance standards of a mediocre high school football coach.  Yet, rather than point the finger at the CEO, we blame his personnel - the offensive coordinator, the quarterback, etc.... for the pitiful performance.   Have you ever seen Wall Street do this ... blame the VP of Sales, or the HR director, or the Director of Training for poor quarterly results?  Never.  They blame the CEO.  In Auburn's case, there is one person responsible for how well this team is prepared and how well they perform at the beginning of the season and that is, Tommy Tuberville.

As a comparison look at CEO - Pete Carroll of USC.  Look at how well they perform and execute right from the start - despite loosing a bushel of players to the NFL.  What do you think are the 'standards' he sets for his players and coaches?  Watch them on the sidelines.  They play, coach and act like winners.  Mediocrity has no place there. The dynamics are so incredibly different from that of Tuberville and the Auburn sideline.

I have never been a fan of Tuberville for this very reason.  He is a CEO that has been given all the resources to hire the best, to train the best, and to recruit the best.   Yet, every game, and I do mean every game, we shareholders are holding our breath wondering with gut wrenching, nail biting anticipation which team is going to show up.  We are more likely to play down to the 'standards' of our competition than be the benchmark. 

The fumbled balls, the poor play calling, and even poorer execution are all symptoms of a organization whose 'standards' are not that of a national champion - despite the fact the shareholders and board of directors have all given the CEO the resources to be just that.

"A win is a win" was one of the quotes from Tuberville after last weeks' embarrassing performance.  Wouldn't this have been a more appropriate quote, "I want to apologize to the University and the fans for last week's dismal performance.   I have no excuse.   You deserve a better return on your investment.  I hope you'll be generous enough to give me another chance to prove to you I can field a first class team each and every week.  If I can't then I should be fired."

This team is a reflection of the CEO, Tommy Tuberville.  In the business world, if a company with this much talent and resources were to perform like this, the CEO would be placed under a magnifying glass by both the Board of Directors and the media.  It is time for us to ask whether we have the right man at the helm.  Are his 'standards' high enough?

War Eagle!

 

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Tuberville ain't the problem

I’m not very versed in business practices, so this analogy may be shitty or false, but let’s go with yours that Tubby is the CEO. If the CEO goes out to hire a regional manager, he interviews several candidates. He looks at each candidate’s past performance along with how the interview went. Based upon those thing, he makes an educated decision. If the man he hires comes in and, despite being very successful in the past and saying all the right things, fails at his job, how is it the CEO’s fault? If Tubby hired, say, me at offensive coordinator, then yeah, Tubby would be completely to blame. However, he hired someone who has had great success running offenses at Troy and (further back) Kentucky (yes, an SEC school against SEC defenses).

Look, I’m not looking to put the blame on anyone in particular. My piece on Franklin and Chris Todd was just a theory on why Kodi has seen such little playing time this season, but really the whole team, from the scout team to the head coach, needs to get its act together.

War Damn Eagle!

by PowerOfDixieland on Sep 15, 2008 2:45 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My Blog...

was about nimrod Tiger fans such as yourself. I guess we should just go ahead and fire Tuberville and get it over with? This site is reserved for Auburn fans. Not fair-weather types such as yourself.

Find somewhere else to write your bullshit.

WDE

by ArieGold on Sep 15, 2008 3:42 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Brilliant!

One of those people who feel the only way to be a “good” fan is to never ever be critical. Never expect more than the team gives you – always be positive – NO MATTER WHAT. Sorry – if you want a love-in go find a different blog or start your own.

by Ulcer on Sep 15, 2008 4:07 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Who are you

the blog police? You get to share yor opinion, lecturing everyone about how we aren’t good enough fans, so let this guy say his piece. You sound like little Hitler for christ’s sake.

by GumptownTiger on Sep 16, 2008 8:47 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No matter how dumb

a point he is making he is allowed to make it. This is America. And I love it : )

by GumptownTiger on Sep 16, 2008 8:48 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Your analogy is almost as screwed up as your logic....

You must be one of the moronic fair weather fans that call in the finkbaum show. As far as bammer goes his name says it all. Last week they were all lamenting the close call with Tulane this week they beat western nobody and they are “BACK”. The problem with fans like you Ulcer is you only show up here when there is a chance to bitch and moan. I am coining a new name for you and your kind. From now on you shall be referred to as the “Lowder Constituency”. Your answer for every thing is fire up the jet and fire Tubby. Brilliant indeed!

by Todd92 on Sep 15, 2008 10:20 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Deep Thoughts

I’m not sure this one deserves a reply. I should probably just let him continue to embarrass himself with his intelligent and articulate comeback.

Are you saying that the only time I am allowed to be critical of this team (if ever) is if I write how ‘wonderful’ they played when they do well. I have been an active passionate, screaming-til-my-voice-is-gone-and-then-cheer some-more fan for 25 years. There is no excuse for Sat. dismal performance – none. Tubby needs to be called on the carpet and held accountable. We pay him and his staff too damn much to sit back and say nothing. If you are a real Auburn football fan (vs a Tubby fan) then you should be madder than hell. As I am.

by Ulcer on Sep 16, 2008 7:29 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I am saying the only time a fan like you has something to say is...

when you have something to bitch and moan about or call for a coaches head. And when they blow a game yes I get “madder than hell”, but, I try and keep from displaying a knee jerk reaction like “fire the coach”. And last time I checked AU was 3-0 ugly win or not. Show me one NC or conference champion for that matter with out the ugly win on their schedule. And last of all stand up on that stool so you can look people in the eye when you speak Mr. Lowder.

by Todd92 on Sep 16, 2008 9:17 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I never thought I'd see the day when I wanted to openly defend Auburn...

But this is ridiculous. I’ve never seen people over react this way over one game (especially a win) in my entire life.

As a comparison look at CEO – Pete Carroll of USC.

Are you freaking kidding? Are you comparing Auburn to USC and Pete Carroll? USC is the elite of the elite. Auburn is not, and has never been, on the same level as USC, why would you be comparing them to USC now?

Why don’t you compare Auburn’s offense to UF’s 2005 offense in Meyer’s first year.
Florida’s ave ypg first 3 games with Meyer – 378
Auburns ave ypg first 3 games with Franklin – 403

It’s well documented how much criticism Meyer got his first year in the league, and how after the LSU game in 2005 he started tweaking his system to utilize his team’s strengths while he recruited his own players. I think it worked out pretty well for those boys down in Florida.

Tubby’s decision was probably a two year comitment to show progress over what was a downward spiraling Auburn offense. Give it a freaking chance!!!

Anyone who has seen LSU play this year knows that this week’s game will be a hard fought defensive struggle against two offenses with great RB’s and mediocre QB’s. Let’s see how bad you think your offense is compared to another top 10 ranked SEC team’s offense this week.

by LSU Jonno on Sep 15, 2008 10:20 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why not be held to the same standards as USC?

How can you compare year one for Meyer with year 8 for Tuberville?

Who was responsible for the “downward spiraling Auburn offense”? – Tuberville.

In the first three games last year, with a veteran quarterback, we barely squeaked out a win against unranked KSU (3/15 3rd down conversions) and then lose to South Florida and Miss State. We looked like crap. What was the excuse then?

This years’ excuse is the “spread offense”. And next year….

Who do you think is responsible for the “elite” status you and most people so accurately site for the USC football program? I’ll tell you who, the CEO of that team – Pete Carroll

by Ulcer on Sep 16, 2008 7:54 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

USC...

will end up on probation because of Pete’s blind eye. Tuberville has done it the right way and defanged Lil’ Napaleon Lowder ( ’zat you lil fella?) in the process. And still putting together championship contending teams. I may have on the rose colored glasses but you need an eye exam.

by Todd92 on Sep 16, 2008 9:23 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Whatever...

This is such atypical Auburn fairweather fan bullcrap. Tubs has the best winning percentage of any Auburn coach ever. Auburn is still amongst the elite in wins over the last decade-nationally and in-conference. Quit your damn whining and wait and see how Saturday goes.

by ArieGold on Sep 16, 2008 12:59 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and I add to Ariegolds comment in saying......

Auburn is an elite program overall. or do you think that a program in the top 10 in all time wins among majors (div. 1A) is not an elite program?

by Todd92 on Sep 17, 2008 12:12 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You are 13, not in top 10 according to CFB Datawarehouse in all time wins

Their all time program rankings is a better judgment of elite programs though.
Link
I’m not going to name an arbitrary cut off point for “elite program status”, but it at least appears that AU is not in USC’s league.

by LSU Jonno on Sep 17, 2008 3:49 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good link

I stand corrected, 13th in all time wins (and climbing) I still stand by my logic that we are an elite program. I don’t subscribe to their program rankings, however, as they award 50 points for each national championship that they decide is legit (by what criteria I couldn’t begin to guess, because they use a certain selector for one year but not the next for the pre AP/UPI poll years or rather the retro NC’s). I for one say there are no legit national championships for those years otherwise AU could claim more than the 1 just as LSU could claim at least a couple previous to 1958 if they had the scruples of the Bammer nation.

As to AU comparing to USC on All time wins which is the most objective criteria (no opinions to hinder stats) AU is 13th USC is 10th. So it appears AU is in the same league. Interestingly right behind LSU (10 game seperation) and UGA.

by Todd92 on Sep 17, 2008 6:21 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh!

And by the way, some of us have been posting here since the beginning, and we have a right to defend our blog site from people who signed up with a sole purpose of tainting this site as a fire Tuberville engine! Sorry

by ArieGold on Sep 16, 2008 1:03 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ooh. Can I get in on this?

As much as I would love to thrash Tubbeville in this one, I will choose to defend him. I have never been a fan of Tubberville’s methods and I have made the statement that I don’t believe we will win a championship with him at the helm of the Tigers, but I would still put him in the top 5 or 7 coaches in college football today.

For everyone screaming to fire Tubberville, who would you replace him with? Name a coach that has been up for hire in the past 5 years that is a better coach, and for the bammers here who say Saban, tell me that in 3 years when he is gone to a better paying position.

The fact is, if Auburn is ok with being a 9-4 to a 10-3 team year in and year out, then Tubberville’s our man. He runs a clean program and disciplines the players when they are out of line, he makes our players better men. Now if Auburn is dead set on winning a championship then I feel we need to go after another man.

Well at least I tried for a little to defend him anyway.

by Mattco on Sep 16, 2008 7:02 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If you don't think he'll ever win a championship, how can you call him a top 5-7 coach in the game?

Where would you say he falls among all these coaches who have won championships?

Les Miles
Urban Meyer
Mack Brown
Pete Carroll
Nick Saban
Jim Tressell
Bob Stoops
Bobby Bowden
Phil Fulmer
Steve Spurrier
Joe Paterno
Dennis Erickson

War Damn Eagle!

by PowerOfDixieland on Sep 16, 2008 7:29 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

alrght. I shall rankith these coaches.

I will rank just the coaches you have listed even though I think Richt would be in my top 3.

1. Bob Stoops. Gets solid recruiting classes every year and only is in the top 3 every year.
2. Pete Carrol. Despite losing one stupid game a year with a year in and year out top 2 recruiting class, he still wins most of them.
3. This is where it gets tricky. I would say that Steve Spurrier belongs here. shitty team and still manages to compete.
4. Tubby. Yep, I put him above those others. Mediocre recruiting classes, clean program and perennial top 15 team.
5. Jim Tressell. Manages to assemble good teams and can maneuver through the Big 10 well enough to make it to the championship game to lose again.
6. Tie between urban Meyer, Mack Brown and Nick Saban. All three are great recruiters who always manage to lose a few games.
9.Joe Pa. yes, he is still relevant.
10. Les Miles. It sucks that he keeps winning regardless of stupid mistakes, very similar to ole Tubby.
11. Phil Fulmer. Not very much going these days but still can scare the hell out his opponents.
12. Dennis Erickson. Seriously why would you put him and Bobby B on this list? Erickson is a mediocre coach in the Pac 10 with a half assed team.
13. Bobby Bowden just doesn’t have anymore.

Alright. Now what? That is my honest opinions on this list. The ones that I would have around the top 5 that you left off are Richt, Frank Beamer (special teams are coached better than anyone’s in the country), Butch Davis, and Ron Zook ( I think that if left alone the 07’ championship was his anyway).

by Mattco on Sep 16, 2008 8:17 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I just picked coaches who currently coach that own national championship rings

Of course, that’s not so relevant, because even Larry Coker has one of those (not coaching anymore, but you know what I’m saying).

I wouldn’t put Stoops up there that high. He runs the Big 12 every year but blows it when he plays real teams. Same as Tressel. I’m still not sure how you feel about him. You say you aren’t a big fan of his and don’t think he will ever win a championship, but then say he would be in the top 5 of current college football coaches. Which side are you on? If you don’t think he’d win a championship, whom would you rather have (that we could conceivably get)? If he’s a top 5-7 coach, what’s the problem?

I like Tuberville. He doesn’t always win pretty, but he wins. Even in his bad years (’03, ’07) he wins 8 or 9 games. He won every game in ’04. He won 11 in ’06. I hope we keep him for a long time.

War Damn Eagle!

by PowerOfDixieland on Sep 16, 2008 9:09 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Boo non-matching pronouns

When I say “I’m still not sure how you feel about him” I mean “…feel about Tuberville.” Not Tressel.

War Damn Eagle!

by PowerOfDixieland on Sep 16, 2008 9:11 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i got it.

I say that I don’t like Tubberville because I don’t like any coach that refuses to bench a player for any reason. Like Cox the past two years. Cox wasn’t a bad quarterback every week, in fact he managed the offense quiet well in big games several times. But when Cox was off, ie both UGA games, he was WAY off. How do you not look at the situation and tell the man to sit, he is screwing up everyone’s chances to win.

Tubberville does very well with the talent that he gets and he gets the players that fit his system pretty damn well. On the books, his classes are mediocre at best. I agree that Stoops doesn’t do well in the big games, but for the most part they aren’t coaching errors, they are due to breaks and players playing poorly. I guess the same could be said about Tubberville but I still put Tubbs up there too.

As far as, who do I like that we could conceivably get? I don’t think we are going to get a better year to year coach as who we have right now. I say that because he is a solid coach with some drawbacks and a solid recruiter. I feel Saban is a great recruiter and a mediocre coach at best, look at the talent he has managed to squander everywhere he has gone.

Someone on the other end of the spectrum would be Terry Bowden, another man to lead us to an undefeated season. He was a fantastic coach and a horrible recruiter, he left Auburn in shambles. Players hated him and he had no respect for them.

The reason I don’t put Carroll on top is because I feel that he is more of a chaperon than a coach, much like Coker was for his championship. All they have to do is go with the players and get ready for the Gatorade shower after 60 minutes.

by Mattco on Sep 16, 2008 9:37 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think you've captured it Perfectly - Mattco

Mattco – Your first reply is dead on. You raised a question I believe the “Board of Directors” lacks the courage to deal with – Are we Auburn fans, alumni,and contributors “ok with being a 9-4 to a 10-3 team year in and year out”? Or maybe they have and just didn’t anyone.

I for one am not – especially with the amount of money we spend and talent we are able to attract.

I agree with your assessment of Tuberville as a coach – good but not great.

It is time we find the next Spurrier out there and trust me he’s out there. I would rather go through a rebuilding period or two with an exciting new coach than continue to sputter near the top knowing we don’t have the coach to ever reach the top.

Go Auburn – BEAT LSU!

by Ulcer on Sep 17, 2008 9:21 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Contradicting ourselves arent we?

How can a perenial 9-4, 10-3 coach win em all? and when was the last time spurrier went undefeated? so what good is finding a coach that can’t win em all? Tubby is just as capable as any coach on any list of “winning em all” he’s done it and the proof is in the pudding.

by Todd92 on Sep 17, 2008 12:18 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I assume that Tubbs should just apologize for a rod win in the SEC and his defense pitching SECOND shut out of the year. He should beg not to be fired for being one of the top coaches in the country and the SEC and whipping bammer’s ass 6 years in a row. He should apologize and ask for forgiveness for beating Florida the last two years and handing them the only loss they suffered at home under Urban’s tenure. He also had that poor choice in Rhode’s as the D coordinator. Have you been smoking the hippie lettuce. We are 3 and 0 rolling into the LSU game. You must have never played football because a win is a win. You reference Pete Caroll who lost to the mighty Stanford last year as a 42 point favorite. Pete Caroll has to manage the mighty Pac 10 schedule every year. I can’t believe Tubberville is even questioned we should feel lucky he has stayed at Auburn. We went 13-0 in the SEC and that was not a down year in the SEC. Did LSU or Florida go 13 and 0 when they won the 3 national titles ? Was the performance ugly Saturday night yes, are we 1 and 0 in the SEC yes. If we play well and beat LSU will all this whining stop I assume it will for most of you guys but I am sure someone will still try to to be a Monday morning quarterback. But the bottom line is these have been some of the best years in my life to be a AUBURN TIGER. War Damn Eagle !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
War owning Bammer the last six years
War going 13 and 0
War being #9 in the cuntry and having another shot at the SEC title this year

WAR DAMN EAGLE

by AU04Natlchamps on Sep 16, 2008 10:25 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If we beat LSU on Saturday

I will be supremely pleased. Even if we get penalized for 200 yards and turn it over eight times, as long as we beat the Corn Dogs, I will not be complaining.

War Damn Eagle!

by PowerOfDixieland on Sep 16, 2008 10:34 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Tubby isn't the problem

The problem is his OC. Tubbs is only as good as the people he surrounds himself with (as is with almost all head coaches). The only exception is Pete Caroll. He has access to so much freakin talent (not to mention the lack of competition) that they could be playing candyland during every practice and still win the Pac-10.

by FansPoll.com on Sep 17, 2008 12:19 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

For the sake of dicussion...

Who would you hire to replace Tubs?

A list of previously menitoned top tier coaches coaches with comments followsw:

Les Miles – probably a couple bricks shy of a load and a classles jerk. Do you really want him to represent AU?

Urban Meyer – a great recruiter but not as good as Tubs in head to head competition.

Mack Brown – a good recruiter and a really nice guy, but has lost a couple of big games.

Pete Carroll – another jerk, a blowout loss to Stanford, probation bound.

Nick Saban – Great recruiter, but a self centerd jerk that lacks long term career stability.

Jim Tressell – Way overated in my opinion. Leave that damn sweater vest in Ohio.

Bob Stoops – great recruiter but has recently developed a trend for losing the big games.

Bobby Bowden – past his prime as a coach, too old, sideline media circus. Unrealistic scenario.

Phil Fulmer – We already have a better coach thanFulmer…

Steve Spurrier – great recruiter, does more with less, but age is becoming a factor.

Joe Paterno – a classy guy but too old and a very unrealistic scenario.

Dennis Erickson – we’ve already got a better coach.

Mark Richt – a classy guy until the Gator Stomp incident last year. Shouldn’t he have a NC by now? Only 1 more SEC Championship than Tubs. Probably an even swap at best.

Frank Beamer – considered in previous coaching searches, but probably too old and not a realistic candidate.

Butch Davis – a good recruiter, age is a plus, an interesting possibility…

Ron Zook – a great recruiter but which Ron Zook would show up at AU? The one that coached at Florida with some embarassing losses, or the one from last year’s Illinois team?

Skip Holtz – I added this one. Could be the next Steve Spurrier, but he may also come as a package deal (figurately speaking) with Lou Holtz whom I don’t particularly care for.
I’m personally opposed to hiring the son of an active or retired coach due to what I call the Bowden Diddy Factor. “I called my Diddy and he said to do this…”

by 83Tiger on Sep 17, 2008 11:55 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I fully disagree about Zook.

I think that Zook is a great coach. You have to remember that when Spurrier took off to the Skins, Florida was pretty much dry with talent and Zook basically had to completely rebuild that team. About the time his players got into position to help him out, they got rid of him.

Zook’s biggest problem was the fact that he followed one of the greatest coaches in the past 50 years.

As far as Skip Holtz goes, I think that if he stays put at East Carolina for another 3 years, he will get a huge offer from a big time program. Not big expectations at ECU but he keeps pulling an upset a year and keeps getting a little better each year.

by Mattco on Sep 17, 2008 7:16 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You can add classless jerk to Meyer....

and you can forget Skip Holtz as he is probably Notre Dame Bound or his “diddy” will cover his face in spit as he screams at him.

by Todd92 on Sep 17, 2008 12:22 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No, Notre Dame has....

enough money to send him packing if he doesn’t produce. His 10 year contract extension wont even cause their hand to shake as they write him the final check if he doesnt produce within 2 more years.

by Todd92 on Sep 17, 2008 12:44 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So according to you Tubby is a better coach than all those guys?

Personally I’d rather lose games that I’m an underdog in (Jim Tressell) than be upset twice a year (Tubby). Now I’m not saying Tressell is a better coach, because I think he is overrated as well. Just pointing that out.

I’d take Les Miles, Nick Saban, Bob Stoops, Dennis Erickson, Mark Richt, and Butch Davis (maybe) over Tubby.

by LSU Jonno on Sep 17, 2008 3:53 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd take Tubby over Miles, Stoops, and Erickson

Because he’s not an idiot, cheater, or weasel (respectively)

War Damn Eagle!

by PowerOfDixieland on Sep 17, 2008 4:25 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Remind again who was the favorite....

in the LSU-UK and Arky-LSU games last year or were those not upsets in your mind.

by Todd92 on Sep 17, 2008 5:37 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

leave bammer ALONE!

he was being nicer than i would have been ! besides he is right you barners just need to CHILL OUT we are only 3 games into the season and it might get better for you guys ,and then again it might not ! but thats ok because thats one bad season out of how many good ones? i mean come on it is pretty bad when a couple of bama fans are the ones being positive about auburns season!

by cmyster94 on Sep 18, 2008 12:34 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Whoa, wait a minute cmyster94...

Okay so you guys are a couple of bama fans on here being “nice”? And what the hell are the rest of us AUBURN FANS doing? Ya know what would be really nice? Stay on your own damn message boards. And I can’t tell…were ya born in 94? Because if so, not understanding proper social conduct by not staying out of conversations you’re not invited into would be completely acceptable. So is it your bed time yet sweetie? Why dontcha wander back over to the kiddie table and fantasize about “The Bear” with the rest of the kids. The grown ups are talking right now. Thanks, hun. ;-)

by AUFootballSeasonWidow on Sep 20, 2008 8:37 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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