The Most Prestigious Programs in CFB
by War Eagle Atlanta on Jan 26, 2009 11:15 PM CST
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In the top 20?
ESPN has come out with a ranking of the most prestigious FBS programs in the modern era and I, for one, am glad that someone else has attempted to rank the teams in some order. Most of my valuations have been based on CFBDW's ranking index, which I in turn tweaked a bit. But just as national championships are mythical in our favorite sport, so are any rankings that might include those as a criterion.
But ESPN makes a pretty comprehensive effort to include more factors than I've ever seen before, including not only MNCs, but also major bowl appearances and wins, top 5 and top 10 AP finishes, Heisman winners, consensus All-Americans, bowl wins and 1st-round draft picks. They even subtract points for losing seasons and any probation related penalties, including loss of schollies and TV bans.
The most interesting part is that they've only gone back to the dawn of the AP poll as their definition of modern day, which is exactly the same thing I've been preaching for years now. Revisionist history and back-dated titles not withstanding, that's the real era when the MNC was born. The Top 25:
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Oklahoma
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USC
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Ohio State
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Notre Dame
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Nebraska
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Alabama
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Texas
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Michigan
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Florida State
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Miami
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Penn State
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Tennessee
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LSU
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Georgia
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Florida
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UCLA
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Washington
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GA Tech
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Arkansas
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Texas A&M
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Auburn
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Clemson
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Colorado
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Ole Miss
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BYU
The rest of the FBS teams are found here. Some of the things I think this poll should include:
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All time winning percentage
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Historical strength of schedule percentage
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Number of conference titles
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A weighting system that clearly takes into account conference superiority
So we end up only at 21? Certainly I thought we'd be well inside the top 20, like we are in CFBDW's index (once you eliminate the non-FBS teams). How are we behind Washington, GA Tech, Arkansas and Texas A+M? What's UCLA doing so highly ranked, barely trailing four consecutive SEC teams? They've only won one MNC ever. How did FSU get ranked above both Miami (5 MNCs) and Florida (3 MNCs)? Certainly, this matrix isn't perfect. What do you think?
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Ugh, more ESPN crap...
Leave it ESPN to post a mythical ranking of most prestigious CFB programs. Do we really need this? All this does is help cement bias towards the programs already benefitting from extensive media bias. Do we really need to determine the better program between Ohio St. and Michigan? Oklahoma and Nebraska? USC and Notre Dame? FSU and Miami? Its pointless, they are all great programs.
Of course here we sit languishing in the bottom half of the SEC, not even within sniffing distance of Tennessee, LSU, Georgia and Florida. Bunk. Its a travesty, but I am not surprised in the slightest to be disregarded by the likes of USC sycophants like ESPN.
I can’t wait for the inevetable cavalcade of Rolling Turds to come roost on this post and crap on us. No offense, WarEagleAtlanta but this kind of stuff is better left on ESPN where it belongs….with the other garbage.
On what day did the Lord create Bear Bryant and couldn't he have rested on that day too?
I am shocked...
No Bammer posts? I surely thought they would love to shove our nose in it and cry foul over being 6th. I hate to admit it but Alabama should be number 2, there is no way that Oklahoma, Nebraska and Ohio State should be in front of them. The fact that BOTH Oklahoma and Nebraska get put in front of Bama totally invalidates the usefulness of any of the data. Prestige can not be measured with stats, regardless of how hard you try. As laughable as the Bama slight is, ours is even worse. UCLA? Arkansas? F’ING WASHINGTON!!!!???? The editor who approved this should have been fired on the spot. You don’t even need to look at the data to know that the findings do not support the basis for the argument….if that makes any sense either.
On what day did the Lord create Bear Bryant and couldn't he have rested on that day too?
#2
Bama should be, AFTER deducting for bogus MNCs (as it turns out, ND has 4 illigetimate titles themselves).
Yea, if little brother thinks you’re #2, then we can take great pride in being such a thorn in your side all these years. Once we go ahead in the all-time series, I can then die feeling vindicated. I think I’ll have that on my tombstone…
by War Eagle Atlanta on Jan 27, 2009 6:56 PM CST up reply actions
Are we really going to get into that again...
Calling out everyone’s “Mythical” Championships is starting to sound more and more like jealousy…let it go WEA…let it go man….
When you are an Alabama fan you are expected to hate Auburn, I hate Tennessee because I want to.
They're 'mythical'...
…because they aren’t won on the field or through a playoff, but rather through a voting process. That’s not my term, I just borrow it. They’re not mythical because I think all of them are illegitimate. Just some of them are…
AND…it’s my thing. It’s what I do. In vain, no doubt. I chide other programs for doing the same thing. You just happen to catch me doing it to your team, one of the worst offenders.
by War Eagle Atlanta on Jan 29, 2009 11:01 PM CST up reply actions
Conference title is indirectly given points – “best conference record”. Even if two teams have the same best record and one wins a tie breaker to be declared “champion”, both got points.
I love that they are only counting AP/UPI/Coaches titles. Bama will never claim less than 12, but it’s nice to see national media stating what we all have known for years.
My only beef is that they are still counting AP titles in the BCS era. The AP means nothing anymore and it shouldn’t be part of their formula after 1997.
2 big questions for them:
Did they award 25 or 50 points if a team won both polls in a given year?
Did they count probation forfeits as they really happened or as losses?
Good questions...
They don’t specify too much about certain scoring scenarios. I wish they published a score sheet for each team so you could spot check a few.
Alabama gets killed because this index leaves out 5 of their MNCs—three back-dated ones and two illigetimate ones. They also get killed by it (seemingly) leaving out all those Rose Bowl victories in the 1920s. I think those should count, regardless of if it was pre-AP polls. Naturally, our one Bammer friend loves to argue that those games were de facto NC games, but he’s a little delusional…
You guys should appreciate this index for what it is—a comprehensive way to measure programs that are unequal and virtually uncomparable. It’s a way of reconciling CFB history that has NEVER had a clear cut yard stick from which to be measured by. No, it’s not perfect, but it comes closer than anything I’ve seen so far…
by War Eagle Atlanta on Jan 27, 2009 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
I read the ESPN article a few days ago....
and I though it was idiotic in its findings then as I do now.
I would have gone to bammer if my grades hadn't been good enough to go to AU
The poll makes it easy.
…..You know, conferences negotiate for sweet broadcast deals, but who’s the one program who can negotiate national broadcast network coverage, for just themselves? Now THAT’S prestige!
…..How do Clemson and Colorado get in there?
Stupid enter button...
As a way to measure media bias. If you’re teams higher on the list, you get to go to the NC in a situation like this past year.
by SandMountainTiger on Jan 27, 2009 10:13 AM CST reply actions
How long till
we get panty raided by RBR on this pole? Get your bets in now. I say by tomorrow morning.
"Jay Jacobs can't go to the bathroom without Bobby Lowder's permission" - Paul Finebaum
yeah, I'm just waiting.
Can’t believe they weren’t over here immediately.
I tried my best...
…to draw their fire!
Let’s hijack this into a James willis thread and see if that works…
by War Eagle Atlanta on Jan 27, 2009 4:52 PM CST up reply actions
We are way too low...
I hate when ESPN does crap like this… Bama will just claim another national championship.
Jay Coulter
Thus my consideration of the article in general.....
moronic. I have never seen a ranking of all-time programs that didn’t have AU in the top 15.
I would have gone to bammer if my grades hadn't been good enough to go to AU
lol
When you are an Alabama fan you are expected to hate Auburn, I hate Tennessee because I want to.
I think you must be bipolar...
I would have gone to bammer if my grades hadn't been good enough to go to AU
ha ha why?
When you are an Alabama fan you are expected to hate Auburn, I hate Tennessee because I want to.
You typically are relatively....
level headed and not one prone to slinging random insults as much as the usual trolling mullets we see on here. I fail to see where I said anything funny……I was just stating a fact. But it is a fact that I would expect some smart ass retort from the typical Mullet for my having said it……just didn’t expect it to be you.
I would have gone to bammer if my grades hadn't been good enough to go to AU
Then let me explain
My first reaction was…Auburn in the top 15? of all time? I figured you felt this way due to being a barner, so i laughed out loud…then i began to think about it. I quickly jotted down my top 15 teams…they were as follows (excuse my own homorism)
1. Alabama
2. ND
3. OU
4. USC
5. Neb.
6. OSU
7. Texas
8. UGA
9. Miami
then I had trouble finishing my top ten..any number of teams could fill in 10-15
like
UF
LSU
Texas AM ( thats a stretch i know)
Tennessee
maybe even a Boston College (extreme maybe)
sure Auburn is one
Florida State
Clemson could be there
But really there is about 15 teams that could have a legitimate argument to be considered in the top 15. Of course the top 5 could easily be in any order and I would agree with it.
So it is fair to say that AU could be considered a top 15 program of all time. My question to yall is why?
One MNC in the last 60+ years..
2 Heisman winners (not bad since we have none)
6 SEC titles (not great but not terrible, see Vandy)
Post season bowl record 19–13–2 …34 total bowl appearances…22 less than our all time record…
IDK…there are some good stats there but not really enough to list as top 15 of all time. This of course coming from a guy named bammer..
When you are an Alabama fan you are expected to hate Auburn, I hate Tennessee because I want to.
perhaps you should include all time wins as well.
I think its kind of preposterous to include a team like Miami in the top 10….regardless of the recent success that they have had go back past ‘83 and who the hell were they? You can say the same about FSU. Now if you change your criteria to the last 25 years I can understand it. You talk about 1 MNC in the last 50 years being a downer and then you put UGA in your top 10. UF was the whipping boy of the SEC along with Vandy and Kentucky for the better part of the 20th century hell they still trail Ole Miss, UGA, AU, Bama, UT and LSU in their all time series. This is supposed to be an “All Time” ranking not recent success ranking. And you must remember that Bowl Games were originally awarded to schools as a promotion for the town having the bowl and primarily schools that weren’t percieved as travelling well were not invited….but 34 bowls is still nothing to sneeze at. You may wish to go back and look at the number of Bowl games and conference championships that Miami, FSU, and UF have been to before you cast aside AU as a top 15 team.
I would have gone to bammer if my grades hadn't been good enough to go to AU
from Wiki
I guess this proves your point
Auburn has the 13th most wins in D-1A college football.9 In terms of winning percentage, Auburn ranks as the 8th most successful team in the past 25 years with a 71.7% win rate (214–83–5)10 and 12th over the last 50 years with 68.4% (386–176–10).11 Of the 93 current I-A football programs that been active since Auburn first fielded a team 116 years ago, Auburn ranks 13th in winning percentage over that period
When you are an Alabama fan you are expected to hate Auburn, I hate Tennessee because I want to.
As great...
as being #13 in all-time wins is, that alone doesn’t make a great team. Naturally, with most of those wins coming in the SEC, it stands out more than #14 Syracuse’s wins, but again, it’s only one stat.
I’ve never seen Auburn ranked in the top 15 in any comprehensive rankings index, but I’m pretty confident about being a perrenial top 20. CFBDW has us #18 for FBS teams.
A MNC in 1983 and 2004 would have us in the top 15, but no such luck…
by War Eagle Atlanta on Jan 30, 2009 1:16 PM CST up reply actions
Actually ESPN had a ranking several years ago....
that had us ranked pretty high. I don’t recall what the criteria was or even who compiled the data for them. Regardless I don’t use just that as the basis for my statement. And number of wins or winning percentage alone is not enough but combine that with Heismans, Bowls, All Americans, rankings at the end of the season, etc… you should have no problem ranking AU in the top 15. We should be ranked within the same range as UGA.
I would have gone to bammer if my grades hadn't been good enough to go to AU
???
What 53 idiots have voted alabama as the “most prestigious program of all time”?? I hope you don’t consider yourselves Auburn fans. They don’t even have a Heisman. I think you have to have won both national titles and Heismans to be considered one of the best. Again, I hope none of those 53 truly consider themselves to be Auburn fans. War Eagle.
What do an Auburn fan and a bammer have in common? (Neither of them ever attended u.a.t.).
Idiotic as usual....
…..but that is ESPN for you.
I have nothing against Oklahoma, but with all due respect it should be:
1.) Notre Dame
2.) Alabama
3.) Michigan
4.) USC
5.) Then Oklahoma
Michigan...
…shouldn’t be in the top 5 because they only have 3 real titles—only one of them since the Truman administration…
by War Eagle Atlanta on Jan 29, 2009 11:03 PM CST up reply actions
But....
Look at their all time wins and bowl numbers.
So?
Call them the Buffalo Bills of CFB. 872 wins and only 3 MNCs? Not cutting it, IMHO…
by War Eagle Atlanta on Feb 3, 2009 2:10 PM CST up reply actions
You can't call them the Buffalo Bills because they have won it......
I do agree that Meeechigan should have more championships…..I thought they only had the two modern NC’s.
I would have gone to bammer if my grades hadn't been good enough to go to AU
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