1st and Five: Things That Should Make a Comeback in College Football
by War Eagle Atlanta on Apr 27, 2009 11:00 PM CDT
49 comments
The old spread. Not the same as the new spread...
Three weeks ago, we had a thread about what we wished would disappear in CFB, which is easy, because everyone always has a complaint list that's three miles long. But now you're going to have to accentuate the positive and come up with 5 things that have vanished from the game that you'd like to see return--NOT a wish list of new innovations, mind you.These things must have already existed at one time.
1) The Wishbone: Not seen in major college football outside Lincoln, Nebraska in at least 20+ years, fans of a dedicated running game have seen passing attacks slowly erode into carries for decades. Call it another name if you wish--triple option, for example--but let's get back to running the ball more. We're not the NFL, and I don't care about being a farm system for their pro-style offense crap. I'd love to see this ball control offense strategy make a comeback.
2) Neutral Site Games: With the advent of the new inaugural game that the Georgia Dome has reintroduced, reminiscent of the old Pigskin and Kickoff classics, and with renewed vigor in facilitating OOC matchups, like FSU and Alabama in Jacksonville two years ago, the neutral site game may make a comeback with a vengeance. Slowly but surely, with greater pressure for BCS teams to schedule same in OOC matchups, neutral site games offer a compromise to the scheduling intricacies of a home and home. It's one game and done! The networks, especially ESPN and ABC, are leading the way in doing this. CFB can only benefit when the scheduling of these games is facilitated.
3. Alumnus Coaches: What does every single coach in the SEC have in common? None of their alma maters is their current employer. And probably 95% of the remaining FBS coaches. Almost an anachronism in this day of professional hired guns, the alumnus coach is a vanishing breed, especially in high-profile programs. Although I understand that having sheepskin from the institution that you're currently coaching isn't a prerequisite for success, I'd still like to see it make a comeback, if only for the novelty of it. Unfortunately for most schools, most alumni coaches just aren't qualified to take the reigns of their former program. Sad commentary, indeed.
4. The Tear-Away Jersey: Yea, I know the logistics of having multiple jerseys for every player on the roster would be a nightmare, as evidenced by a certain Georgia Tech QB on a Thursday night about a year ago, but if you ever saw one get ripped off Earl Campbell at Texas, you know what I mean. 'Nuff said!
5. The 3-Hour game: Darwinists have predicted that the current CFB will have evolved into six and a half hours by 2085. We can put a man on the moon, but can't get one hour of football with requisite commercials in thrice that interval? Three hours was long enough for Gilligan and the crew to get stranded on an uncharted desert isle. Why can't we get it done? I devote less time to sleep a lot of nights than I do to the average televised Auburn game.
Time to hear yours!
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Ga. Tech is running the wishbone...
1.) I think that’s what Coach Johnson calls it.
2.) I was the happiest man on earth, the day Alabama started playing at Auburn. Coach Dye said “It put Auburn on equal footing with every other program in college football”. Every now and then MIGHT be nice, but I like the national media coming to the Plains and showing off AU.
3.) Pat Sullivan or Patrick Nix for head coach?!? nuff said.
4.) Althogh the tear away jerseys are not nearly as bad as the orange ones, I didn’t like ’em. I prefer to see a defender grasp ahold and sling some poor guy to the ground.
5.) LOL! It ain’t gonna happen. Unless of course you find that magic lamp on the beach someday..
GT
GT is running the Flexbone. It derives historically from the wishbone, but as you can seen below it’s not quite the same:
ha
I saw the technical mistake…and when I saw a correction…I guessed Year2 ….and I WAS RIGHT…
I think my goal for the year is to steal Year2 from TSK…
Graham Filler
The Rivalry, Esq
SBN’s Big 10 College Football Blog
“Where our Spring Games draw more than your conference championships”
by Graham Filler on Apr 29, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Great topic, and great list...
In order of importance:
1. I have to fully concur on topic 3. This is something that has damaged the tradition of college football. It works both ways, as both schools and coaches have forgotten the meaning behind a signed document and a handshake.
2. The 4 to 5 year player. You should not be allowed to play professional sports without a four full years of college (I would say a degree should be required, but professional sports would suffer with the brainpower of today’s athlete. Not making fun… I was a student athlete, and it’s tough, but not impossible). This is also quickly taking away from the tradition of college football, IMO. If you don’t have a group of stud Freshmen and Sophs in the skill positions, you’re not going anywhere. If you do have them, you’ll go somewhere, but for only a year or two. The days of the dynasty are gone because of this.
3. I’ll see your wishbone, and raise you a Notre Dame Box. If you’’ve never seen it (and if you like the Wishbone) it’s a thing of beauty. Developed and perfected by Knute Rockne, with assistance in development by assistant coach and soon to be Alabama head coach Frank Thomas, this formation could not be stopped at the time, and if run correctly today, may hold up nicely as well. Actually (and unfortunately) the closest thing you’ll see to it today is West Virginia, because of the Box’s similarity to the Single Wing, but that’s a stretch.
4. The days before 13 people on the sidelines giving signals, coupled with quarterback wristbands (and don’t get me started on microphone helmets in the NFL). Back in the day, in a close game, in a short yardage situation, the QB would call the play so that the defense could hear it (I’m serious… my uncle played DE for Bama in the early 70’s), and 9 times out of 10, it was a run up the middle. It was a challenge, Think about it, if you make it, the defenses moral is shot. If you miss it, you had the balls to call it at the line and you have the respect of the D. It was a gameplan just like any other.
That’s all I’ve got for now…
"There's a lot of blood, sweat, and guts between dreams and success" - Coach Bryant
#5, without a doubt...
24 man teams with ONE coach. Look at the national champions from the 20’s. You see a picture of the whole team and coaching staff formed by two rows 12. That was some hardnosed football. And with only 3 to 4 passes per game, total, someone got hit every play, and thick sweaters didn’t provide much padding, obviously. And if you were the HB that just got your block knocked off on fourth and inches and got driven back 2 yards to turn it over on downs… guess what, you better find a way to get up and man you middle linebacker position because that freight train that just hit you is now at running back and wants to make sure you don’t get up again. And don’t even think about sitting out a play, because you know there was still 2 or 3 guys that sucked, so essentially there was NO backup.
"There's a lot of blood, sweat, and guts between dreams and success" - Coach Bryant
Would you...
want to bring back Alabama playing games at Legion Field??? With the exception of us, of course…
by War Eagle Atlanta on Apr 28, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions
No, I wouldn't...
First off, big home and away series like Oklahoma/Bama got messed up by things like playing our home game in B’ham. When it comes to playing national powers like that, you want the toughest atmosphere for your opponent, because they’re going to give it right back the next year. In order to do that, you must appeal to not just the typical fan, but to the least common denominator, the students. You must make it easy (and a part of their season tickets) to be at big games, otherwise you lose much of your home field advantage IMO. Now, I wouldn’t mind playing Auburn every year in a neutral site, but Legion Field is hardly the venue it once was, and it’s hardly a neutral site geographically. Now, I know you can’t appeal to demographics, but you can put the game in a more equidistant city. (Not as of yet, of course, as there is no stadium that can compete with BDS and JHS in size) But I would love to see the game go back to a neutral site on a yearly basis. Maybe if Mobile would expand Ladd-Peebles Stadium a good bit, that would be a great venue. It’ll never happen with all the money each school is now making on a bi-yearly basis, but it would be good for the rivalry, I think.
"There's a lot of blood, sweat, and guts between dreams and success" - Coach Bryant
Good point
about the students. It’s a lot harder for them to get up to Bamaham. But I don’t think Auburn would consider a neutral site in our series for decades. We had to fight real hard to get it where it is now. I hope we always keep the home and home with Bama, but never say never…
by War Eagle Atlanta on Apr 29, 2009 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions
You must be a bammer
There is no such thing as a national champion from the 20’s unless you are predicting the future and are talking about the 2020-2029 champions…
I let it slide...
in the spirit of detente. We can argue about it in a future thread.
by War Eagle Atlanta on Apr 29, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions
You've figured me out, Dave...
Or I could be a fan of Notre Dame, Michigan, Lafayette, Georgia, Princeton, etc. So in the interest of fairness, scroll through this list until you hit the 1920’s, then be sure to hit up all the football fan websites associated with these schools and let them know that their National Championships don’t count because football and it’s NC voting system wasn’t real before 1957. Let me ask you something, and I’m not trying to start a pissing contest, but I want an honest answer: Had it been deemed that in 1927 Auburn shared the National Championship with Notre Dame, both of whom went undefeated and untied, but never played each other, you as a fan would not claim 2 National Championships? I’ll guarantee you that Auburn University would!
"There's a lot of blood, sweat, and guts between dreams and success" - Coach Bryant
They're all embellishing MNCs, too.
A true, widely-accepted MNC didn’t exist until the AP dawned in 1934, then starting running annually beginning in1936. There were some selectors who started before that, but they had fizzled out long before they gained any semblance of credibility. The Dickinson system, which started in 1927, decided to choose champs in the years prior, which was suggested by Knute Rockne at Notre Dame. These are known as back-dated titles, as they weren’t awarded during that particular season, but a long time hence.
Besides, Dickinson never awarded any title to Alabama, back-dated or not. It preferred mid-western teams. Tell you what. You find any newspaper article from that period proclaiming Alabama to be the national football champions for that particular year and I’ll shut up. You won’t find it, because it simply didn’t exist at the time.
by War Eagle Atlanta on Apr 30, 2009 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions
Actually......
AU is credited by several backdating NC awards but we don’t recognize any of them as legitimate……thus proving you not only wrong but ignorant.
I would have gone to bammer if my grades hadn't been good enough to go to AU
All I'm asking for
is a national newspaper from November – March after the season with a story that declared the championship. If it didn’t “happen” during the era it didn’t happen.
In your 1927 situation, if there was a 1927 or 1928 national newspaper declaring it then yes I’d agree with Auburn claiming it. But in 1927 there just wasn’t such thing as a “national championship.”
OK, fellas...
It’s come down, yet again, to an “agree to disagree” scenario. I’m not going to convince you and vice versa. But I would like to say a few things:
The newspaper litmus test: This is a very cute idea guys, but give me a break. Find me a newspaper article saying Columbus discovered America (the Caribbean). Does the fact you can’t find one suggest we don’t live in America? No Bama fan will argue that the MNC’s are A) mythical (as are all MNC’s) and B) are back dated. But this type of awarding was just as accepted in this time of US history as pale, fat girls were. We’ve moved on to better ways of thinking nowadays, but that doesn’t mean that everyone pre 21st century was wrong. Again, I can put your shoes on and see your point, just try to return the favor.
And Todd92, for God’s sake, quit calling people names when they disagree with you. Yes, I do it from time to time, and that doesn’t make it right, but everytime you interject with something I, or any bammer, says; you absolutely cannot help but cuss or say something negative about that person personally. You get your point across without calling me ignorant at the end of every post. Think about it.
"There's a lot of blood, sweat, and guts between dreams and success" - Coach Bryant
I would say that the context I used ignorant....
was correct and not intended to be applied as a name but rather a state of being……you know a “verb”. Get over it.
I would have gone to bammer if my grades hadn't been good enough to go to AU
My personal favorite Bama National Championship claim.
1941-finished 9-2 and ranked 20th in the final AP poll.
by Jumpn_JackFlash on May 5, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions
Newspapers...
didn’t exist when Columbus discovered America, and the Gutenberg press had only been invented a few decades before. Bad analogy. There were plenty of newspapers around in the first three decades of the 20th century.
As far as it being a widely accepted fact at the time? You are dead wrong. Again, bring me proof. Show me a Tuscaloosa yearbook or a Crimson White article at the time.
by War Eagle Atlanta on May 7, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Well...
technically… but anyway, why would I go find a yearbook, or whatever, in order to prove to you that Bama claims back-dated titles? You don’t need something from that long ago to prove that, and just as hard as it is for me to prove their legitamacy, it’s more difficult for you, or any pudit with an opinion, to prove that these polls and systems are not legit. My proof that they were accepted is simply that they’ve withstood the test of time. You and I both can find out anything we’ve ever wanted to know about Parke and Houlgate. Now, if they were completely bogus and unrespected, they would’ve been written off as such from their inception and surely would’ve fallen through the cracks of history by now. To prove my point, you and 100 of your closest friends try to start your own poll this season, try to get it published, and see if it takes root. Not likely to happen, just as it’s not likely to happen for any of the 1000s that try to seriously do that every year. So why were people like Parke successful in getting people to take notice? Maybe he was the first to try something like this (very unlikely) so he was chosen by default, or maybe people of that time just longed to crown a victor, and all the teams prior to 1927 needed to be recognized for their efforts as well. Who the hell knows, but I can tell you that assuming there was a champion crowned at the conclusion of ‘25 and ’26, Bama would’ve been in the running with one or two others, and this is what Parke saw. He didn’t just grab teams out of his ass, he researched this stuff. I’ve researched it too, due to conversations like this, so that I can have no reservations about backing up my school’s claim to these titles. 1941? I can’t help you there. I’d humbly bow out of any arguement that has anything to do with that year.
Well, I’ve wasted enough time for no one to walk away from here convinced of the others opinion, but I have just one more question:
Have you seen the 1957 paper claiming AU as the national champions? Or do you just believe that it happened? Just curious…
"There's a lot of blood, sweat, and guts between dreams and success" - Coach Bryant
We don't want to prove
that Bama claims back-dated titles, that fact is not in dispute. We just want you to prove that these so-called titles existed at the time they were allegedly earned; in other words, that they are anachronistically correct. That’s it.
Again, you won’t find it because it didn’t exist—the same reason you won’t find a map of North America that was drawn in the 1600s including the USA—because it didn’t exist yet.
Nobody disputes an AP title as being illegitimate, so your argument there doesn’t pertain to the subject at hand.
by War Eagle Atlanta on May 11, 2009 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Anachronistically, good word...
Just because you want a newspaper from 1925 and 1926, and it appears you have gained a following for your request, does not mean these championships don’t exist, it just means you have come up with a witty arguement, and nothing more. You’re arguement, in the form you’re basing it, is that Bama is claiming backdated titles as though there was another way at the time. A system simply didn’t exist, as you well know, so why punish the best teams prior to 1927 simply because no one thought to make one available?
"There's a lot of blood, sweat, and guts between dreams and success" - Coach Bryant
I think that's the blog equivilant...
of a tap-out!
by War Eagle Atlanta on May 11, 2009 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Are you serious?
So instead of attemping to disprove my claims to your arguement, you take the easy/lazy way out and just claim “blog victory”. Hell, had I known there was such a thing, I’d have just done that days ago, instead of wasting my time trying to get you to see the other side rather than your “I’m right, and you’re wrong, and that’s it” style of discussion. I have admitted to you above that I can see where all the nay-sayers are coming from, but I can moreso see where Bama has every right to claim those titles. This was just an attempt to get you to do the same, just to play the devil’s advocate for two seconds and step into some Crimson shoes. But since you are unwilling to think freely (as a college football fan rather than just an Auburn fan), and quit talking about newspapers, then you’re right, this conversation is done, as it’s like trying to explain something to my 2 year old.
Now, if you would like to continue discussing the topic on the thread title, I’d love to, as that’s the reason I came in here in the first place before I was given the inevitable “you must be a bammer, because you believe football existed in the 1920s” comment for simply trying to discuss the 25 deep, all iron-man team of old.
I now know my limitations at this website, but just know that I will always defend my team if I have sound reason to do so, but I also will ALWAYS give the other side my attention and a fair chance in the given discussion. Hell, I can put myself in Hitler’s shoes for a minute, simply for the sake of discussion. But I will also continue to stop by and contribute to threads like this (for its original purpose) simply because I love college football, and I appreciate anyone who can share my passion with this sport. Have a good one…
"There's a lot of blood, sweat, and guts between dreams and success" - Coach Bryant
I took...
the following phrase, so why punish the best teams prior to 1927 simply because no one thought to make one available?
as a resignation. Sorry.
by War Eagle Atlanta on May 12, 2009 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions
And while we are at it...
lets bring back gun shots signaling the start and end of quarters.
by Jumpn_JackFlash on Apr 28, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions
thoughts
1. yeah i agree…but the flexbone is basically the advanced version of the wishbone. i kind of have a feeling that if Kodi Burns played in that ole’ Nebraska offense we wouldn’t be nearly as diappointed with him.
2. the neutral site is totally making a comeback…much like boatshoes, men’s briefs, and the mustache. what’s old is new again.
3. so tell me, would you rather have Pat Sullivan or Stan White coaching the Tigers or Urban Meyer?
4. Tear Away Jerseys = AWESOME, this is the best idea of all
5. your average college football game is still shorter than an NFL, MLB, or NBA game. i have no problem with the long games…it’s just more time for me to sober up.
Definintely...
…..Pat Sullivan! He set TCU up to be a C-USA power. Before that, TCU was moribund. Sullivan struggled, but a number of facility upgrades happened at his insistence. Pat did a great job recruiting, too. They fired him basically because he talked to LSU. Pat’s recruits went on to do great things under Dennis Franchione. Remember LaDanian Tomlinson, anyone? TCU’s been tough for a decade, based on the foundation Pat built.
……Sullivan turned a lightly regarded athlete into an NFL prospect at UAB, Darrell Hackney. Roddy White, ace receiver for the Falcons, came through Sullivan’s system, too.
…..Tear-aways cut both ways. Bo would have had more yardage than Herschel, if he had played in the tear-away era…
That two year difference
between Bo and Hershal was ALL the difference!
by War Eagle Atlanta on Apr 28, 2009 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree Acid...
and I’m glad you noted that ! TCU wasn’t even at the level of Vandy or Tulane prior to Sullivan’s arrival. He has never been given the credit he deserves. We will never know where he may have wound up had it not been for the way he was treated by them (not to mention his fight with cancer).
I love the excitement of a back tearing loose for a long gain. HOWEVER I like defense better, so I ’d prefer no tear-aways.
aubtigerman
by aubtigerman on Apr 29, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
You sober up at the game?
You and I have a different philosophy on when to sober up.
I would have gone to bammer if my grades hadn't been good enough to go to AU
Bring back ...
… uniform uniforms.
Say what you want about the NFL ( a.k.a the No Fun League) but the powers-that-be who run that organization know that uniforms should be uniform and that bloody athletic socks should forever be white.
Please Auburn Tigers I’m begging you … pleeeeze, get rid of those horrid black socks.
Nebraska Never Ran The Wishbone
that was Oklahoma.
Tear away jerseys are from the Devil himself.
I beg to differ.....
Nebraska did in fact run the wishbone. And while they did evolve into a 2 back option attack it all started with the wishbone.
I would have gone to bammer if my grades hadn't been good enough to go to AU
I loved the tear away jerseys when I was growing up....
…except instead of Earl Campbell it was Terry Davis, Johnny Musso, Willie Shelby and Major Ogilvie.
And if Legion Field wasn’t allowed to deteriorate into a crap hole, I wouldn’t mind Bama playing one game a year there. But I don’t think uab would like it. Moot point anyway.
I went to high school...
…..with Ogilvie. He was a good guy. We were in the same biology class, with Bubba Daves teaching. Ogilvie carried us on his back to two state championships. We’d come to class every Monday, and see what new bruises the guy had…
Cool...
His son is a walk-on QB at Bama right now.
by yellowhammer on Apr 28, 2009 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Neutral Site Games are Coming Back
Jay Jacobs turned down a neutral site game for Auburn against UCLA in the Georgia Dome to open the 2010 season, not wanting any games to leave campus. Alabama has had a neutral site game the last two years, and we open up 2009 in the Georgia Dome as well!
1.) The Option
2.) The half jerseys
3.) The days before the bcs
Colorado still plays a neutral field game against csu and a hate it.
1990 National Champions- Colorado Buffalo's
1913,1957,1983,1993,2004 National Champs- Auburn Tigers
Definitely pre-bcs...
Until there’s a legitimate playoff system implemented, I would just as soon we revert back to the after-bowl vote like it was before the bcs. In days gone by, your team could be in the Top 5 and still have a chance to be #1 after the bowls, mainly because the conference champions were tied in to certain bowls where they played a Top 10 opponent. For example you could root for a highly ranked (but not ranked higher than you) Big 10 Champ to beat a #1 USC in the Rose Bowl, another highly ranked team to beat a #2 Texas in the Cotton Bowl, and #3 or #4 still had a chance, provided they win their bowl game. Back then, ALL the major bowls played a part in shaking out a champion.
Looking at the final regular-season poll, the bowl matchups and seeing who needs to beat who on New Year’s Day to get you to the top made every major bowl relevant and was just as, or more, ‘fair’ than this ‘Top 2 only’ system that’s in place now.
by yellowhammer on Apr 30, 2009 5:58 AM CDT up reply actions
So you're suggesting...
that if we eliminate the BCS, we might go back to a greater possibility of having a split champion since we wouldn’t have an automatic 1 versus 2 matchup. Hmmm. Very interesting. Having a split champion isn’t that bad an idea. I’d support that until we got a true 4 or 8 team playoff. Might prevent a lot of heartache. Auburn would have defintely won the AP crown in 2004 had the AP not been aligned to the BCS—something it promptly dropped the next year in the wake of that mess.
by War Eagle Atlanta on Apr 30, 2009 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Random Question
What do you use to draw up that position diagram?
Thats Good For Another Jacksonville... First Down.
I used google images...
Of course, it was already drawn for me. The wishbone has many names and incarnations, but we all know what we’re talking about…
by War Eagle Atlanta on Apr 29, 2009 11:35 PM CDT reply actions
Oh
Thanks bro. I was just wondering if you drew that yourself using some sort of software. I’ve been searching for a playbook type drawer for months.
Thats Good For Another Jacksonville... First Down.
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