Serious Allegations Leveled Against Auburn by Former Players
by Jay Coulter on Mar 29, 2011 7:39 PM CDT
in Football
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This afternoon I received an advance copy from HBO of tomorrow night's episode of Real Sports With Bryant Gumbel. The episode focuses on big time college athletics and specifically, the money institutions and the NCAA make off student athletes.
The show spends a considerable amount of time on Auburn and focuses on four players who say they received illegal benefits while being recruited and playing for the Tigers during the Tommy Tuberville era.
It's a scathing report that whether true or not, will deliver a huge black eye to the Auburn program.
Real Sports correspondent Andrea Kremer talks with former Auburn players Stanley McClover, Troy Reddick, Chaz Ramsey and Raven Gray.
In the report, McClover said Auburn was not the only one to offer him money during his recruitment. While at an LSU football camp his senior year of high school, he said he was given money for the first time.
"A booster came up and said, ‘We'd love for you to come to LSU,'" says McClover. "He shook my hand and I had $500 in there. It was called a money handshake."
Another time, McClover says he received $1,000 while visiting Ohio State on a recruiting trip. According to McClover the school went a step farther. "When I got there (Ohio State) I met up with a couple of guys on the team; we went to a party and they said pick any girl you want," he said.
Kremer asked him if that meant for sexual services. McClover responded, "Yes." Following that weekend he committed to the Buckeyes. Ohio State denies the allegations.
McClover says Auburn and Michigan State also provided $1,000 handshakes during his recruitment. But according to McClover things heated up at Auburn.
"I remember it like it was yesterday," he said. "(A booster said) what do we have to do to get you to come to Auburn University. And I gave them an answer."
McClover says he received an undisclosed amount of money in a book bag a short while later. "I almost passed out," he said. I felt obligated to them (Auburn)." Kremer points out in the segment that there is no documentation to validate McClover's story.
Kremer also spoke with former Auburn offensive lineman Troy Reddick, who acknowledged receiving money while playing at the school.
"I was contacted by a representative of a local alumni and offered a large sum of money," said Reddick. He says he didn't accept the money from the Auburn booster.
Reddick goes on to say that while at Auburn, he became increasingly unhappy because coaches wanted him to change his major because it got in the way of football practice.
"I changed my major so my classes didn't interfere no more," he says. "But I didn't bother to go (to class) because I knew I was only there to play football."
Reddick says Auburn coaches became aware of his unhappiness after he started to complain regularly. "After practice one day, one of the assistance coaches said, ‘I got some mail for you up in my office,'" said Reddick.
"I went up to his office and he gave me an envelope. I walked back to my truck and opened it up; it was about $500."
Kremer asked Reddick how many times this happened while at Auburn. "Over that season (his junior year) it happened like two or three times and it happened six or seven times my senior year."
During his junior season, McClover said he had his eye on a 1973 Chevy Impala that was for sale. "The private seller wanted $7,000 in cash. I went to my booster I know and he gave me the money in a book bag the next day," he said.
As McClover became better on the playing field, he said he no longer had to ask for money. He said he received money based on the number of sacks he got in a game. Following his memorable 2005 Iron Bowl performance, he said he received $4,000 for his play.
Former Auburn offensive lineman Chaz Ramsey says he also received money handshakes. "You walk out and fans are lined up for autographs and then some guy shakes your hand and it's a wad full of money - $300 or $400 a game," says Ramsey.
To Kremer's credit, she does ask Ramsey about his lawsuit (recently dismissed) against the University and whether these allegations are a result of that action. Ramsey says he holds no grudge and he's simply telling the truth.
Ramsey goes on to say that he benefited from the sale of his student tickets - an NCAA violation. "I would sell tickets all the time," he said. "I'd make $1,000 a ticket sometimes." During his playing career Ramsey estimates that he pocketed $5,000 to $6,000 off ticket sales.
Former Auburn player Raven Gray says he also received illegal benefits while being recruited in 2007 out of junior college. "This booster man giving me money, I'm going to be loyal to him and go to Auburn."
Reddick said that following the 2004 Championship Celebration in Auburn, he sold his gold watch as he was walking off the stage. "It was useless to me. My sister's house was being foreclosed on and I needed the money to help her."
Reddick said players never talked about the illegal payments. "Guys will talk about all kinds of criminal activity, but they won't talk about that (illegal payments). I believe a guy would talk about raping a girl before he would talk about getting money."
It's important to note that throughout the report there was never any proof presented of these allegations. The program will air tomorrow night at 9 p.m. CT on HBO.
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well...
I’m sure this will be a fun week. Bracing for the onslaught.
I'm an Auburn fan because I go to Auburn. You're a Bama fan because you went to Walmart.
Auburn Tigers 2010 National Champions
It sure is funny that the only people they can find that will say anything......
are the ones that failed with the NFL or didn’t get far enough along in their career to make a try at the NFL (Ramsey)……apparently the Arizona Rattlers arena team doesn’t pay Reddick well enough. I doubt that there is anything that will come to light from the HBO slanderfest that could be substantiated other than these are all disgruntled disillusioned former players that have an axe to grind for one reason or the other. I am most dissappointed in McGlover and Ramsey……I always thought that they were classier than this. Raven Gray couldn’t cut the mustard and left because of it. Troy Reddick was never a world beater of an OL and wasn’t good enough for an NFL team to keep. And HBO didn’t compensate them for their interviews? Riiiiiiight…..I have some Arizona beachfront property you can buy reeeeeeally cheap.
I don't troll so I reserve the right to berate trolls as I see fit.
Just so you know I won't forget.....LSU Jonno predicted we would finish 5th in the west in '11.
Agreed...
There was no proof throughout the entire story. To HBO’s credit, they do point that out. Regardless of whether it’s true, and we have plenty of reasons to doubt it, the damage PR wise is going to be significant. The question is whether the statue of limitation has passed for the NCAA to investigate. I’m not sure.
Which is exactly why HBO and Realsports specifically......
are a bunch of sensationalist jerkwads that will put out any story they can for the ratings regardless of how insubstantiable the story in question may be. It’s absolutely piling on and taking advantage of the timing of AU’s notoriety. I’m not saying that the program wouldn’t still be on HBO but at least AU wouldn’t have been a target……and if anyone want to tell me they didn’t go looking for the story then we will have to politely disagree. I have a hard time giving HBO any credit for pointing out that everything they are telling you is quite possibly total BS……which is exactly like Geraldo telling you about Al Capone’s hidden vault only they don’t have to knock down any walls and be relegated to joke status for the better part of two decades.
I don't troll so I reserve the right to berate trolls as I see fit.
Just so you know I won't forget.....LSU Jonno predicted we would finish 5th in the west in '11.
I heard an interview
with Andrea Kramer today. She said they went after Auburn because Auburn had a history of violations then went on to name the Eric Ramsey incident and what happened with Cam this year. To me, all of that means they went after Auburn because of the Cam “scandal”.
A lot of places
have a ‘history’ of violations; Bama, the OSU, USC….so her reason for focusing on Auburn is a little thin. I bet that they surfed around and these guys were the ones that talked. Good job guys, thanks.
(for the record, the following rant is not meant for James4au)
And if I see ‘well all four guys had the same story, so it must be true’ one more time, my head will literally explode. These are NOT complicated stories, so their similarities should not be that surprising. Their similarities are not what are going to make their stories true or not-either it happened or it didn’t, the rest is irrelevant.
by Tiger on the mountain on Mar 30, 2011 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Just like describing what the aliens looked like...
or the flying saucer, or what the tornado sounded like, or any number of things.
And if I see ‘well all four guys had the same story, so it must be true’ one more time, my head will literally explode. These are NOT complicated stories, so their similarities should not be that surprising
Well stated girl!
Come and join me at http://trackemtigers.com
My thoughts exactly
Really dissapointed in Stanley.
AubTigerman
"The reason you come to Auburn is because of Auburn people.This is a special place, from the coaches all the way to the fans" - Andrew McCain OT
Ignore them, they're haterzzzz.
Just like everybody else who has said negative things about the Auburn Family. They’re all just jealous, and none of them is telling the truth because of it.
Do former players count as part of the Auburn Family, or are they excluded once they say anything bad about the program?
Ann Arbor is a trollop.
That cuts deep coming from an OSU fan
We can’t all run programs as clean and well respected as yours. And former players that turn on Auburn are just as much a part of the Auburn family as Benedict Arnold is American
I'm an Auburn fan because I go to Auburn. You're a Bama fan because you went to Walmart.
Auburn Tigers 2010 National Champions
by FlyAuburn13 on Mar 29, 2011 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions
No compensation, yeah right. Spot on Todd
I wonder if this rubber hose and spotlight treatment would be as bad if it was turned on any big time program in college football. I bet it would. I think we are being the whipping boy here for all college football. Could Bama, Ohio State, Oregon, Texas, I could list more, stand up to this scrutiny? I think not.
I wonder why HBO sought out Auburn players for this? We are hot, controversial,(Camgate) and National Champions. That is why. This show is going to bruise and bloody us in the media and in the court of public opinion and we will have to weather it.
My only solice is that after this, more players from other schools will come forward and barbeque their programs and boosters.
As media always does, my feeling is other outlets will seek out other players from other teams and Not Pay Them, cough, cough, and you will see several more expose type specials in the coming months.
I just hope they erect the Saban statue/altar/shrine before he leaves
Yeah well,
Willard Scott told me some pretty good dirt on Gumbel from back in his Today Show days. Apparently he had a reputation for stealing the sunshines off of Willard’s weather map and making googley eyes at the Smuckers birthday girls. He thought it was hilarious but everyone else thought he was just an ass. That is why they had to bring Lauer in.
Another thing
I’ll tell you who the real loser is in all of this: that girl at Ohio State. She must really hate the SEC.
I find it amazing that...
many of McClover’s former teammates (which include the great Ronnie Brown) called him out on it and said they never received anything. I mean really what idiot spends that much money on someone who was middle of the road in talent, yet leave former Auburn greats( some now NFL starters) with empty pockets?
So they weren't compensated...
Then what is this?
http://bigbrothersunited.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/funday1.jpg
…If you don’t know, this is Stanley McClover’s charity. Hmm.
by College&Magnolia on Mar 29, 2011 10:39 PM CDT reply actions
The bad part of it is......
he could have always counted on alot of AU alumni to go the extra mile for his charity…..now I seriously doubt it. So in the long run does he really think he’s better off selling his soul for the quick buck. It’s really a shame and I don’t understand why he thinks he’s better off doing this, and I still think Tubs ran a clean program…..why burn his ties to AU when he would have always been honored here?
I don't troll so I reserve the right to berate trolls as I see fit.
Just so you know I won't forget.....LSU Jonno predicted we would finish 5th in the west in '11.
Am I really the only Auburn fan who doesn't find this unbelievable?
All these kids have similar stories. I doubt they all got together and planned this out. Especially when the story is rather trivial. A few hundred bucks every now and then from boosters? Why didn’t they come up with a more sensational story, like Jay Jacobs or Bobby Lowder personally giving them cash? That would have been a story.
But a few, seemingly rogue boosters handing out money? I’d be more surprised if it didn’t happen here or any other major college program. How many pictures have there been of young athletes standing next to brand new cars with shining rims or stacks of cash? Tons. No one is immaculate here. It would be naive to think otherwise.
It seems almost impossible to prevent. The only criticism I can see is if the coaches are complicit with that behavior. But frankly, I just don’t care. College players get paid- what a newsflash!
Methinks, ya’ll doth protest waaaay too much.
it's not unbelievable to me
But I’m sort of disgusted by it, not apathetic. But I am not going to stop being an Auburn fan over it. I really couldn’t if I wanted to. Look, I am here on an Auburn blog in March, I am a fan against my own will.
I am pretty tired of the bad press but it isn’t like Auburn is the only school getting picked on. We are the hot topic this year. I will be glad when somebody else takes the spotlight. Unfortunately, some other team’s players would have to get involved with a hostage situation to get the spotlight off us right now. It really seems about that bad to me. I hope this is the last of the controversy, but I feel it won’t be over for a long time. sigh.
Agree whole heartedly
Auburn has become a magnet for bad press. I’m waiting to see what finally sticks. We’ve already dodged a few bullets, with the nail-biting grace of Keanu Reeves. Cam Newton innuendo, player arrests, and now this. It could happen to any program, look at Ohio State. As it is, it’s us. So we have to live with it, quit whining, and except that Auburn isn’t squeaky clean. Nobody is.
A fan against your will, huh? That’s good. I’ll have to start using that.
You're not alone
…But I can’t blame anyone who wants to keep their faith in these kinds of things as long as possible. For the most part, the loyalty stems from love for the university (and in some cases, just the program) and/or the area; and the defensiveness is just a byproduct.
Case in point: I had no illusions about Cam Newton and what he was being accused of (putting me in a minority among Auburn fans, probably)…but I still found myself chafing when others would take potshots at the issue.
Auburn won the MNC; so, this is just a byproduct. 1) There’s the name-recognition and the “now” factor that will interest people; and 2) The SEC epitomizes big-time college football as a business, and for right or wrong, Auburn has been a key part of that business for some time.
I don’t have any personal dislike for anyone on this site — well, except for elfcrash, he can go pound salt — but it does leave me with a really negative feeling when an argument against a player’s statements is tied to their ability (e.g.: “He’s just saying that because he couldn’t cut it here.”).
In a case like this, it almost lends more credibility to it. Ronnie Brown is still working through an NFL career; Lee Ziemba is about to begin one. Why would they want to do anything to stir up trouble? Agreed, you could argue the inverse as a motive for players of poorer ability doing this, but that’s my point. This cuts both ways — and the fact that Ronnie Brown or Lee Ziemba dispute their account doesn’t leave me at QED.
Oh, and I forgot....
Consider this my plea to not be banned for being Mr. Doom-and-Gloom yet again.
Much like mgizmo up there, I’m a fan against my will, in some ways. I recognize the hypocrisy of smearing the system, and then partaking in its product.
But, to plagiarize so many of these athletes, “it is what it is.” If it means mucking around in the murky waters of what collegiate sports has become to enjoy what the game has to offer, then that’s what I’ll do. It just doesn’t mean that I have to like it.
Well stated
But, to plagiarize so many of these athletes, "it is what it is." If it means mucking around in the murky waters of what collegiate sports has become to enjoy what the game has to offer, then that’s what I’ll do. It just doesn’t mean that I have to like it.
I was in Athens for five years getting my undergrad and graduate degrees. You’d have to be either completely in denial or completely oblivious to not notice the types of cars, jewelry, clothes, phones, etc. that these players (many of whom come from very poor financial situations) had. To assume these guys aren’t getting the “dollar handshakes” would be optimistic at best and in denial at worst.
I realize you guys have been through hell at all the accusations leveled at your program the last four months, but after awhile doesn’t the light bulb go off that some of this stuff may actually be true? Or as Ron White would say “After four or five divorces, maybe it’s you”. That’s not to say it doesn’t happen elsewhere, but I think what perturbs most fans of other schools is it seems like for the most part the Auburn faithful have pulled the collective ostrich move and seem to be in denial. I’m honestly not trying to flame anybody here, but that’s what it seems like from an outsider’s perspective.
http://hobnailboot.wordpress.com/
I've heard the same thing
from all my friends who are at/recently graduated from UGA. I can say I never noticed anything like this in my years at Auburn. I won’t claim that it never happened, because I can’t prove that, but football players never seemed to be flaunting anything. I worked at Little Caesar’s, and they would come in a scrounge change to pay for a $5 pizza.
I never noticed football players driving brand new cars. In fact, Cam Newton was often seen riding his scooter to class (from what I hear, I unfortunately graduated Fall 2009). The only thing I ever noticed is that you could aways spot an auburn athlete because they were usually decked out in orange and blue under armour.
I won’t claim to have any knowledge of what goes on behind closed doors, but I will say that in my time at Auburn (2005-2009), I never saw anything to indicate the players were receiving benefits, at least not ones large enough to draw attention.
Cadillac Williams drove a tricked out Escalade
Auburn Tigers - 2010 National Champions, 2011 Fulmer Cup Champions
by jd is legend on Mar 30, 2011 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Check the results of the poll...
Last I checked, only 21% was attributed to the “No way” option, as opposed to 36% in the “All of them” option.
Again, I think denial is just the appearance that the defensiveness gives way to. I can’t say I’ve ever (knowingly) encountered an Auburn athlete in my time here in the town and at the university, so I can’t speak to the cars and cash, etc. Still, I’m sure it happens, and from the looks of it, most fans (at least ones responding seem to think that’s the case.
But just like any other fanbase, we wouldn’t want to own that, openly. So, we cast a few aspersions of our own, and it gives the outward appearance of focusing solely on other programs and not ours.
Still, there’s a distinction to be made between denial, per se, and a failure to openly acknowledge or agree.
Thanks for the thoughts, though. It’s certainly an ugly situation.
Thanks
I worry a bit, given that as far as team-specific sites go, this one seems to have users/readers that are extremely devoted and loyal insofar as perception of the team.
Given that, I realize that my input is usually a little pessimistic — especially when this topic is concerned. It’s not intended to rub people the wrong way.
Most people here have a DEEP history with following Auburn, which is why I wanted to clarify that. I’m new blood in terms of following the team, so my perception is a little different. It has, however, been informed by an outsider’s view of SEC football for years (what can I say…it’s always been the conference that puts on the best show).
I'll agree with part of your statement..
And I can see to a point your argument about nobody being squeky clean. I would be fooling myself if I thought the many thousands of well to do Auburn fans out here in the real world were all clean upstanding individuals. Quite frankly, It;s just the opposite, I know for a fact that some of them are not.
Would they do something like Raven Gray has stated, I wouldn’t put it past them. I mention his name because he is from my home town of Enterprise, AL. I was surprised Auburn wanted him. Now I wish they didn’t ever recruit him. Water under the bridge.
Come and join me at http://trackemtigers.com
This tweet is directly from Lee Ziemba...
I started 52 games for auburn, played on a 14-0 national championship team…and saw no money from any boosters or the team itself
Come and join me at http://trackemtigers.com
this too...
Was recruited by the same folks as the hbo star bums, walked out the same locker room doors as them after games…never a dime
Come and join me at http://trackemtigers.com
Anybody out here want to tell me that ....
Ronnie Brown, Carnell Williams, Karlos Dansby, and Lee Ziemba are liars? They are saying they never rec’d a penny for coming to Auburn, or playing at Auburn.
The ones that played with McGlover are saying a whole more, and it aint pretty for Stanley!
Come and join me at http://trackemtigers.com
I agree
It would be easier to keep their mouth shut than to get caught in the middle.
And Chaz Ramsey? Please, he blames Auburn (rightly or not) for ending his career. I know that we have some rogue boosters, who doesn’t. I just hope that if there are-the athletic dept becomes wise and cleans that shit up! Seriously! Like Yesterday!
by Tiger on the mountain on Mar 30, 2011 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions
Denial is BAD
To start with I am a Bama fan. But NOT an Auburn hater! Hadn’t intended to post, was just curious about the reaction from Auburn fans.
But after seeing some of the comments, I figured I had to throw my 2 cents in. Mainly because the reactions here remind me of my reactions to the Albert Means affair.
I was pretty much in denial and it looks like a lot of the fans on here are too. It doesn’t help! Instead put pressure on the university to get the Athletic Department cleaned up. Otherwise the consequences can be disastrous…
Senior Season?
Um… Am I crazy or didn’t McClover declare for the draft after his junior season?
right on the money...
sorry, slip of the type there.
Stanley was told he wasn;t ready for the NFL by his coaches, and some evaluation personnel. He chose to declare anyway. He gambled and lost, now he seeks injustice.
Come and join me at http://trackemtigers.com
I was hoping...
That maybe HBO reported it that way. Some relatively minor flaw like that would make it likely that there were more obvious issues within the story.
by KentuckyTiger on Mar 30, 2011 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions
This from the OANews article by David Morrison...
He;s interviewing TJ Jackson…
"I’m not saying this to brag, but I made all-conference my junior and senior year, and I didn’t get paid," Jackson said Tuesday night. "And I wasn’t the only back-to-back, all-conference player and those guys didn’t get paid either.
"I always hated these shows where guys are coming back after the fact saying all this. I say, ‘Alright, dude. If you got paid, you should have fed a few of us. We played with you.’
Come and join me at http://trackemtigers.com
This goes with what I posted above
I worked at Little Caesar’s off College Street in 2009, and I remember some big name players coming in and having to dig for change to pay for a $5 pizza. If our players are being paid, then they are covering it up really well.
And this from Kody Bliss
KodyBliss Kody Bliss
all I know is. That if Stanley had money he wasn’t spending it. He borrowed my truck all freshman year.
Come and join me at http://trackemtigers.com
Stanley and Bliss
were never at Auburn at the same time.
yes they were
Bliss from 03-06 and Stanley from 03 to 05
I'm an Auburn fan because I go to Auburn. You're a Bama fan because you went to Walmart.
Auburn Tigers 2010 National Champions
by FlyAuburn13 on Mar 30, 2011 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep, that's my bad.
Got Bliss confused with another punter who followed him. Can’t believe it’s been 5 years since he was there.
I'm not all that upset with the allegations
I know it’s wrong, and I wish Auburn wasn’t wrapped up in such practices. What annoys me more about this whole situation is the other fanbases that are standing up and feigning outrage at us, as if these sort of deals didn’t go on at EVERY major program. It bothers me that they call us “ostriches” for playing dumb about this going on at our school, but they deny it happens at theirs.
I'm an Auburn fan because I go to Auburn. You're a Bama fan because you went to Walmart.
Auburn Tigers 2010 National Champions
Let me clarify
It bothers me that they call us "ostriches" for playing dumb about this going on at our school, but they deny it happens at theirs.
Not sure if this was in response to my earlier post, but I wasn’t taking shots at anybody here. I was more speaking to the general perception of the Auburn fanbase right now. Trust me, after my time in Athens, nothing would shock me. Like I said earlier, you’d have to be a fool to think that players weren’t being paid in one form or the other regardless of whether they go to Auburn, Georgia, USC, Florida, Texas, Ohio State, wherever.
http://hobnailboot.wordpress.com/
no that wasn't directed at you or anyone on here
more people that i’ve talked to from Tuscaloosa
I'm an Auburn fan because I go to Auburn. You're a Bama fan because you went to Walmart.
Auburn Tigers 2010 National Champions
by FlyAuburn13 on Mar 30, 2011 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
It's all part of "The Process"
“A booster came up and said, ‘We’d love for you to come to LSU,’” says McClover. “He shook my hand and I had $500 in there. It was called a money handshake.”
"I know the quarterback has a strong arm, but...I mean the ball's not gonna outrun ME" --PP7
Ulterior motive?
Seems like HBO went after guys that might possibly have other motives, like having left the program with some type of grudge (ie Ramsey law suit) or have been bitter over their NFL failures. Why wasn’t their some guys interviewed that said they did not see any of that? Had to be because they did not want to present the other side. There are far more players who say that it did not happen. But we’re not going to hear that part of the story from HBO. It appears that the four and HBO have ulterior motives.
Nobody ever rats out their friends...
When does a huge controversy get uncovered that DOESN’T start with someone with an axe to grind?
I’m not going to say these allegations are or aren’t true, but the fact that these guys may have a grudge against Auburn doesn’t change my opinion.
"I know the quarterback has a strong arm, but...I mean the ball's not gonna outrun ME" --PP7
It's underhanded reporting
it gets views and press…exactly what they wanted. They don’t care if its not true or not, they care about $$$$$ (Irony)
Haters can hate, but Cam will still parcipate!
by TheAuburnKnight on Mar 30, 2011 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions
Look if we were really playing players to come to Auburn
How come we didn’t win four or five MNC under Tubbs?
Did some of them get help? Maybe. Did “we” actually pay them to play at Auburn? Hell no.
Did some “rogue booster” offer money handshakes? It’s possible I guess, although 4 grand in a back pack ain’t no money handshake!
Name names, and stand look your benefactor in the eyes. Tell the world what he done, with evidence, or shut the hell up!
Come and join me at http://trackemtigers.com
LOL
Look if we were really playing players to come to Auburn…How come we didn’t win four or five MNC under Tubbs?
Um, cuz everyone else was doing it better?
"I know the quarterback has a strong arm, but...I mean the ball's not gonna outrun ME" --PP7
Your response makes the most evident point here...
Where are all the other schools players, if this is indeed a story on the state of college athletics?
How come USC, Notre Dame, LSU, Alabama, and Florida aren’t on here?
With the SEC winning the last handful of MNC’s how come theey didn’t seek every teams players?
Axes to grind, I have lots of axes to grind….
Come and join me at http://trackemtigers.com
Auburn is getting picked on because of the Cam stories.
I’m not going to say that EVERY school is guilty. But I bet a starting point of 90% of BCS conference schools having boosters that pay players isn’t a bad assumption…
"I know the quarterback has a strong arm, but...I mean the ball's not gonna outrun ME" --PP7
Realistically I doubt Duke has to pay players to come to Duke...
Just as realistic is that some boosters act on their own, not in “partnership” with the Universities.
Come and join me at http://trackemtigers.com
Exactly
You can’t pay the kids above board, or you have pay Womens LaCrosse as well. The kids are getting something and its probably pretty equitable, you play welll you get a nice handshake after the game.
Col.Angus may be rough, Col.Angus may not smell like a bed of roses, but deep down Col.Angus is very sweet. If I overstay my welcome, just tap me on the head!!
I actually believe that would be the dumbest way to pay them..
I mean a handshake? With hundreds of witnesses? Just doesn’t make sense.
Now, a more sublte approach like at a restaurant, walk up and shake their hand, that would be less conspicuous.
Maybe it’s because of having problems with past employees who thought they were getting away with stealing from me. Most of these kids aren’t smart enough to hide the evidence.
Come and join me at http://trackemtigers.com
Hundreds of witnesses that aren't going to turn in their own program...
If you saw a $100 handshake take place at Auburn I bet you wouldn’t be on the first plane to Indianapolis. I’m pretty sure you’d try to cover it up like everyone else.
"I know the quarterback has a strong arm, but...I mean the ball's not gonna outrun ME" --PP7
Yeah but you never know what or who some alumni.....
may bring to the game or even possibly be married too….why I’ve even heard of some AU alumni marrying corndogs!
I kid….
I don't troll so I reserve the right to berate trolls as I see fit.
Just so you know I won't forget.....LSU Jonno predicted we would finish 5th in the west in '11.
Oh I'm sure its done subtley
There is no way a guy is walking around the locker room after the game pulling cash from a duffel bag as he makes the rounds to “congratulate” the players.
But I’m sure it would only be done amongst friends who were getting similar treatment.
Col.Angus may be rough, Col.Angus may not smell like a bed of roses, but deep down Col.Angus is very sweet. If I overstay my welcome, just tap me on the head!!
DAMN
You beat me right to it.
There’s a certain cardinal-and-gold-bedecked program out in Los Angeles that ought to be in this, or will otherwise be conspicuous in their absence.
Took the words right out from under me.
And this explains the bitterness about Glen Dorsey from LSU fans — the chop block was a direct attack on a capital asset.
(I kid, I kid….standard disclaimer applies…it was dirty, etc.)
Simple question, simple answer
How come we didn’t win four or five MNC under Tubbs?
Embezzlement. Even the sweet endorsement deal he had wasn’t enough to get him all of the Golden Flake chips he wanted. Redirection of funds, probably.
Failing that, you have to factor in duck blinds, new rods and reels…..
Or…uh…Jonno’s answer. That probably makes more sense.
From Quentin Groves...
QuentinGroves52 Quentin Groves
Aftr the HBO special 2nite…I’m hosting a live ustream…exsposing the truth behind this scandal and those involved..tune in 11/10 cst…
Come and join me at http://trackemtigers.com
Not surprised at all by any of this....
When my ignorant Bama or Georgia fans accuse Auburn of all this crap, as if they are pure as the driven snow, I just ask them this, “If we’re paying players AND we’re the only folks paying players, why aren’t we like the Yankees? We would get ALLLLLL the Best Players.”
You know whats funny is that all these liberal douchebags that are trying to expose the corruption and unfairness of collegiate athletics to get the players paid are just going to end up ruining it for all the players…. of whom the majority just so happen to be minorities who, by and large, couldn’t get into and don’t belong in college. Those kids are the ones who are going to get screwed in this whole thing. Kids who can’t cut the mustard in school and are only in it to “get paid” won’t get recruited….they won’t get an education….they’ll end up with nothing.
Whether they realize it or not,college football will still be huge whether its NFL Lite or High School Max! Most college fans are going to see their team play if they have big athletic dumb guys or smaller not-so athletic smart guys. We don’t care if the level of play is NFL lite, we just want our guys to beat their guys. I’d actually prefer to see REAL student athletes who play for the love of Auburn and not the chance at a professional career. This perversion that its become is just laughable….who in their right mind thinks that a lot of these kids aren’t getting “something”, they are just mercenaries
But in the end its pretty academic, pardon the pun, because the states are broke and pretty soon they aren’t going to be able to subsidize the colleges…at least to the degree they have…. so something is going to have to give. Either they are going to drop this charade and pay the players a portion of the revenue that is generated by the program OR they are going to go in the opposite direction and its going to only be true student athletes on the rosters. I bet you see the destruction of prop 9, leading to the dissolution of the NCAA and we have NFL and NBA lite on campuses across the country, and a playoff. But its going to take a lot more than Stnaley McClover and Raven Gray to get that to happen….to many old white guys making a lot of money.
Col.Angus may be rough, Col.Angus may not smell like a bed of roses, but deep down Col.Angus is very sweet. If I overstay my welcome, just tap me on the head!!
I don't see what any of this has to do with liberal vs. conservative
Auburn Tigers - 2010 National Champions, 2011 Fulmer Cup Champions
by jd is legend on Mar 30, 2011 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Cmon JD
If you don’t think Bryant Gumbel and Real Sports don’t have an agenda about “social injustice” in this whole thing, you aren’t being objective. Thats the driving point behind this whole thing, the kids are being abused by “the rich greedy white system”
It doesn’t get more liberal than that.
I actually don’t care for the whole liberal vs conservative thing, they’re both hypocrites…but I still call it as I see it.
Col.Angus may be rough, Col.Angus may not smell like a bed of roses, but deep down Col.Angus is very sweet. If I overstay my welcome, just tap me on the head!!
I don't think it lines up that way
I think there are liberals and conservatives on both sides of the issue.
Auburn Tigers - 2010 National Champions, 2011 Fulmer Cup Champions
by jd is legend on Mar 30, 2011 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions
JD is right, Col..
This has nothing to do with being liberal or conservative. So quit drawing those lines. It’s just irritating at a time when there is a lot of other shit to be irritated about.
by Tiger on the mountain on Mar 30, 2011 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions
You got that right sister....
I don't troll so I reserve the right to berate trolls as I see fit.
Just so you know I won't forget.....LSU Jonno predicted we would finish 5th in the west in '11.
I think any of us would be foolish to feign that this doesn't happen.
Perhaps not everything these guys are saying is true, but surely some of it is. When you have four guys who all played at the same school and all have similar stories about getting money handshakes, it’s tough to call it a coincidence.
In fairness, I understand that a decent number of prominent Auburn players who played alongside these guys have stated they never received money, and that’s no coincidence either. However, you have to look at players reasons for their statements. Do McClover and gang possibly have axes to grind against Auburn that might make them more likely to admit to receiving money handshakes? Absolutely. Likewise, though, Ronnie, Cadillac, Lee Ziemba and the rest of the guys have substantial reasons NOT to admit to it. They’re revered players in Auburn, with legacies that will last for years. On top of this, I’m sure they all loved their time at Auburn and love Auburn University. Why would they come out and say “Yeah, I got some pocket handshakes too” and tarnish their image?
You have to look at the situation and see that each side has reasons to talk or not to talk. Personally, I think the guys got paid, and I don’t think that’s limited to these four who talked to HBO, nor is it limited to Auburn. I know for a fact that, in my time at UGA, a big time player for the Dawgs got rims for his car in exchange for some autographed bulldog memorabilia. No one’s innocent in this, Auburn’s just taking the heat. Y’all are going to have to grin and bear it and wait until it passes.
Very true...
I’m thinking the guys that talk are the guys who have bottomed out and have no ties left to exploit. I’m sure that there was a shakedown or two of some boosters to pay for silence. What I will be interested in hearing is, Who? Who was giving out the cash? But that info rarely comes out, which is why you don’t see universities getting busted, there’s no trail to follow. But luckily for Auburn we’ve got a few Benedict Arnolds ready to tar the university for funsies. Thanks guys, you’re the best!!
Depending on what happens with “Stanley and Friends”, you may see some other players from other programs come out to glom onto whatever attention they get.
Col.Angus may be rough, Col.Angus may not smell like a bed of roses, but deep down Col.Angus is very sweet. If I overstay my welcome, just tap me on the head!!
Your thinking is probably correct.
On top of this, the money is assuredly cash and could’ve come from anywhere, so I highly doubt there’s a paper trail to any of it.
Take the whole Jim Harrick thing at Georgia a few years ago. Several players had taken the now infamous Fundamentals of Basketball course, but no one said a word. It wasn’t until Tony Cole became upset about his dwindling playing time that someone came out and said something. I’m sure many players would’ve denied any wrongdoing if you’d asked them, simply because they liked Coach Harrick, they were being successful in the basketball program, and they knew that what was good for the goose was good for the gander. Unfortunately, Tony Cole wasn’t amongst them. Everyone has their reasons for the things they do.
by hailtogeorgia on Mar 30, 2011 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Like I said above....
Nobody…absolutely NOBODY gains from exposing that these kids get some benefits on the side…nobody except the liberal champions of social injustice, who want to point the finger of pious incredulity at the University presidents and say “Shame on you, for imposing indentured servitude on these young men!!” Not bearing in mind that these kids wouldn’t be getting jack squat otherwise.
Such hypocrites. News flash for the social injustice crowd….those in power, who control the money, control who gets it and in what amount. Unless you are a self sufficient millionaire, you are the recepient of some rich persons largesse. How much you get paid, is in direct proportion to how valuable you are to that person and how much leverage you have to demand that compensation. Since the NCAA requires all athletics to be of amatuer status, the athletes have no leverage. If the do gooders try to force the universities hand to pay the athletes “equitably”, the universities just drop the hammer on the kids that will “require” equitable compensation. You can count on that.
Col.Angus may be rough, Col.Angus may not smell like a bed of roses, but deep down Col.Angus is very sweet. If I overstay my welcome, just tap me on the head!!
I don't doubt the stories
My concern is what action the NCAA takes as a result of these allegations. I believe the statute of limitations is five years. Raven Gray was on the team in 2007, so that would fall within that time period. That said, could the NCAA dig up substantial evidence or would it just be an “our word vs. their word” type situation?
It’s all very disappointing.
Auburn Tigers - 2010 National Champions, 2011 Fulmer Cup Champions
I find it highly unlikely that there would be any way to dig up the evidence.
A.J.‘s flaw was putting the money for his jersey in his bank account. I highly doubt any of these guys took the cash they were handed and said, "You know, I just got five hundred dollars cash in my hand, I think I’ll be financially mature and save it."
by hailtogeorgia on Mar 30, 2011 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions
Aint that the truth
Burnt on FO’TY’s, dope, and sneakers within 2 days.
Col.Angus may be rough, Col.Angus may not smell like a bed of roses, but deep down Col.Angus is very sweet. If I overstay my welcome, just tap me on the head!!
Scumbags
They are just taking advantage of the public idea that Auburn recently cheated, and so people will easily agree because of the mindset they already have. Why is it everybody is trying to sink Auburn? We have done NOTHING WRONG! And if we have, it’s nothing that any other school in our whole nation dosen’t do already…
Haters can hate, but Cam will still parcipate!
by TheAuburnKnight on Mar 30, 2011 11:04 AM CDT reply actions
I have posted "Us Against The World"...
I have said on numerous occasions that there are those among us who wish to do us harm.
We will fight, we will prevail, we shall give it our ALL!
From the mountain tops to the valley, from the coast to the plains. Yes, we will fight on. Yes, we will endure, and yes we will once again taste sweet victory!
WAR EAGLE!
Come and join me at http://trackemtigers.com
You bet I have...
and I love it!
Come and join me at http://trackemtigers.com
by KoolBell777 on Mar 31, 2011 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions
From Jay G Tate...
HABOTN HABOTN
Former AU center Cole Cubelic: “I started three years at Auburn, captain as a senior, and I didn’t get anything in terms of money.”
Come and join me at http://trackemtigers.com
It happens ...
at least it used to. When I was at Auburn in the 70s, I worked for a booster who was excommunicated when we went on probation. I couldn’t believe some of the crap that clown would pull.
The other thought in my mind is perhaps ALL of the players are telling the truth. If the “Zeimbas” of the world know it’s not right … and don’t ask … they don’t get paid. Otherwise, a hint may just get scratched … it’s food for thought.
Ever wonder why God painted a beautiful sky blue and a breathtaking sunset orange?
Exactly.
Lee Ziemba, Ronnie Brown, Cadillac, Cole Cubelic, Kody Bliss, and the rest of them could all be telling the truth…and so could McClover and Co. These aren’t mutually exclusive.
by hailtogeorgia on Mar 30, 2011 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah
I remember when the Eric Ramsey story broke, there were several players that came out to speak against Ramsey and to claim that they never received any cash or benefits. It’s very likely that they’re all telling the truth.
http://hobnailboot.wordpress.com/
I must be slipping...
Or my Sarcasm-Meter is broken, because that sounded like you meant it.
Really? I mean, yeah, the idea is interesting, but the idea of a Ronnie Brown or Lee Ziemba [players of their ability level, in the college game] getting niland never knowing about others getting paid seems like a stretch.
And I don’t say that to poke fun at you or your comment. But I just think it sounds too optimistic — especially coming from a Georgia fan.
Just my opinion, though. No offense.
No, no sarcasm.
I wasn’t saying that I thought that was the case, I was saying that it could be. My point was more that citing a plethora of other players saying they never got money doesn’t portend that McClover and crew DIDN’T receive money.
I’ve already made my opinion clear in a previous comment. I think it happened, and I think it happens all over. I also made the point that there would be numerous reasons why players like Ronnie Brown or Lee Ziemba would keep quiet, even if they did receive cash. They don’t have any reason to try to bring down Auburn, because it would just hurt their own legacy, as well as hurt a school that they love and that did a lot for their careers.
by hailtogeorgia on Mar 30, 2011 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions
The squeeky wheel gets greased too.....
There are always going to be some guys perpetually with their hand out looking for anything…..they have no shame, no dignity and will take whatever anyone is willing to give.
I think that is a very likely scenario for some of these guys. The boosters, or whoever aren’t running around handing out cash, but when these guys go up and ask they “help” them out. That may be why some of the guys never got anything….they never asked.
I still think they got “something” though. Even it its was they got to drive a “friends” car or “found” a watch or whatever.
My best friend growing up was a tutor for the Lethal Weapon crew at Ga Tech in the early ’90’s and they were always “finding” jewelry and things. It goes on everywhere…..EVERYWHERE. Hell they were paying VINCE LOMBARDI when he went he PLAYED at Pitt, it was so egregious that Notre Dame took them off their schedule. That had to be in the ’40’s!!
Col.Angus may be rough, Col.Angus may not smell like a bed of roses, but deep down Col.Angus is very sweet. If I overstay my welcome, just tap me on the head!!
Andy Bitter has a great interview with an ex-policy guy from Marshall..
http://www.wareagleextra.com/2011/03/30/what-can-auburn-expect-next-from-the-ncaa/
"This is where the NCAA, they get kind of interesting in their rules. Something like this that is recruiting and unethical conduct issues on the part of a player or coach, there’s not statute of limitations on that.
Come and join me at http://trackemtigers.com
Quentin Groves is on Birmingham radio defending Auburn
http://player.streamtheworld.com/_players/citadel/?sid=3070
I don’t know if he’s done talking or not but it’s been a pretty interesting listen
I'm an Auburn fan because I go to Auburn. You're a Bama fan because you went to Walmart.
Auburn Tigers 2010 National Champions
Former center Cole Cubelic ask an important question today ...
… in the Montgomery Advertiser :
"Where are the guys like me in this HBO story? Where are the guys who played football, who earned their scholarship, who earned their degree and used to it create a great life for themselves? Why haven’t we been interviewed? There’s a whole lot more of us, the success stories, than the guys like (The HBO Four). Maybe our stories aren’t sexy, but we’re the truth. This is the real world."
AubTigerman
"The reason you come to Auburn is because of Auburn people.This is a special place, from the coaches all the way to the fans" - Andrew McCain OT
by aubtigerman on Mar 30, 2011 4:48 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd
Thanks for posting that…I am really pissed off right now…..
by Tiger on the mountain on Mar 30, 2011 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Me too.
Although disgusted might be a better word for how I feel.
AubTigerman
"The reason you come to Auburn is because of Auburn people.This is a special place, from the coaches all the way to the fans" - Andrew McCain OT
Well the terrorists won...
I just ordered HBO.
"I know the quarterback has a strong arm, but...I mean the ball's not gonna outrun ME" --PP7
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