Recruiting: The Ugly Truth
by KoolBell777 on Jan 27, 2012 5:51 PM CST
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YOU BE THE JUDGE!
Unfair practices such as over signing prospective student athletes, have been banned by the SEC. Most schools are going by the rules.
In an article by Steve Eubanks of FoxSports.com that peers into the tactics some schools use to fill their rosters. The University of Alabama has a growing trend that should scare parents and athletes alike. It's being called over-commitment.
No exact numbers are available on over-commitments, although those who track such things put Alabama near the top of the list.
After lambasting the media last year with this...
"You're going to mess up the kids getting opportunities by doing what you're doing," Saban said to reporters. "You think you're helping them, but you're hurting them. You take one case where somebody didn't get the right opportunity, but you need to take the other 100 cases where somebody got an opportunity because of it."
Saban finds himself in the center of the media's sights again, with over-committing.
Joel Erickson of the Ledger-Enquirer, and blog master of The War Eagle Extra posted this article just this week.
For a lot of the kids being courted by colleges across the country, picking a school is the first big decision they’ve ever had to make. Kids all over the country who won’t be playing football in college spent the fall taking visits to colleges, trying to pick the best fit.
A verbal commitment is not a binding contract. At the most, it’s an indication that a recruit really likes Auburn or Georgia or Alabama or Georgia Tech. When a kid changes his mind and pulls out of that commitment, it doesn’t mean there’s any lack of character.
For any recruiter to mislead these kid's with scholarship offers, when they may not exist, is an absolute disgrace. It's one thing to try and sell your school, and tell them that you need them to help you win another championship, and quite another to offer a spot on the roster, and then pull it.
Some parents that are seeing the whole picture, will tell you all about it. Like this post on MomsTeam.com.
But logistics and expense aside, were there other things that were bothering her? As she had told other reporters, she also told me she was upset about the recruiting process and "the politics that surround it." Most worrisome, April said, was that "At ‘Bama they want to red shirt - or grey shirt - him and they want him playing nickleback instead of safety. He is the top safety in the country and he will never play a game his freshman year. Now, at LSU coach Les Miles is offering to play him as safety during his freshman year. His (Nick Saban's) goals don't meet the criteria of the family; they meet the criteria of Alabama."
The recruit mentioned in the story? Landon Collins. Yes that, Landon Collins. His girlfriend allegedly has a job in Nick Saban's office. I wonder what prompted him to verbally commit to Alabama?
Parents need to remember that these are grown men, with college educations, that are masters at their trades. They are dealing with 17-18 year old athletes, and pumping them full of sunshine. Not all of them are acting credible.
Recruiting is an absolute must for every major college football program. How those schools handle that responsibility is what separates the ugly truth, from those that operate above board.
It's no secret that during Brian VanGorder's introductory press conference he mentioned being "thrilled" at the opportunity to be "honest with recruits", during the process.The message being sent wasn't pointed Northward in our state, but to all points of the compass.
It makes me wonder how any parent would let their kids be deceived by the schools that aren't honest and up front with them. Follow the number of players that are getting misled, or grey-shirted, or just told to look elsewhere after their first year in a program. Instead of listening to the sales pitch of the Win/Loss records that are paraded around in living rooms across the country.
My word of advice to the parents and their rising star athlete, Look before you leap!
WAR EAGLE!
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Got a peek behind the curtain in GA last week.
A Bama commit made the AJC last week saying that Saban has told him that he would have to wait a year or somthing like that. Kid had his heart set and all that, been a commit fo a long time. Thing is, AJC interviewed this kid and he was quoted as saying Saban had already lined up a Summer job for him “and eveything.”. The AjC blogs lit up with chatter about that until about 15 mins the kids interview was replaced by the kidsHS coach specifically denying any job was offered? Curious, No?
They discussed this on RBR
and alot of us were worried about how that looks. However I guess after some investigating, as long as the Coaching staff themselves dont line up a job… Then its actually allowed, not as a gray area that hasnt been established yet, but it is completely legit. I cant remember where I saw that at though ?
rtr
by lastmilefire on Jan 28, 2012 1:11 PM CST up reply actions
Insightful KB, but....
one thing you quoted I don’t think I go with….
“A verbal commitment is not a binding contract. At the most, it’s an indication that a kid really likes Auburn or Georgia or Alabama or Georgia Tech. When a kid changes his mind and pulls out of that commitment, it doesn’t mean there’s any lack of character.”
From my friends at “The Urban Dictionary”: Commitment is what transforms the promise into reality. It is the words that speak boldly of your intentions and the actions which speak louder than the words. It is making the time when there is none. Coming through time after time after time, year after year after year. Commitment is the stuff character is made of; the power to change the face of things. It is the daily triumph of integrity over skepticism.
I really do think that a seventeen or eighteen year old kid, while they may need time and guidance to make a decision, should stick to it when the decision is made. Perhaps there should be no committing until NSD. Of course, that’s a dream. What would we talk about between bowl season and spring practice.
I’m being overly dramatic, and I enjoy all of this as much as anybody, but I don’t buy that “committing” and “uncommitting” has nothing to do with character….it has everything to do with character. And, it’s as much on the recruits as the recruiters.
Enough of this, The Who is in concert on VH1…..
I need a cold shower and a copy of the Auburn Creed
I think your both correct, in part...
Sometimes backing out of a commitment is a sign of bad character, while other times it could be a sign of maturity (realizing and correcting a mistake). A change of heart is pretty common among 17-18-year olds. I don’t see much wrong with it unless the recruit was deceitful. The thing is. we rarely know the whole story.
same as the old boss
I need a cold shower and a copy of the Auburn Creed
"His goals don't meet the criteria of the family, they meet the criteria of Alabama."
Really? I’m sorry. This is a team sport. Not a swim meet. Of course his goals are for the betterment of the university. Thats what he is paid to do. I read an interesting article not long ago about the oversigning in our conference. It covered the last four years of recruiting and listed the total number of recruits each year. Ole Miss was at the top of the list. Auburn, Florida, and Alabama were only seperated by one or two schollys.
Most of Saban’s DB’s have to red shirt due to the complexity of his defense. Everyone red shirts most of their players unless they just have to play the raw talent out of necessity. So how exactly has Saban over-committed? We have 25 spots and 27 commitments, at my last count. Every class has a few that will be academic casualties. I have heard there is one spot remaining to finish the class. That means they know that at least three will have admission problems due to academics or ask someone to pay their way (Duron Carter) as a walk-on.
Van Gorder was a great hire but don’t think for a second that he won’t recruit a kid with half-truths about other universities. Like roster info, etc.
We know you are sorry...
We aren’t looking for a character reference.
It's Auburn against the world. Good luck world.
Why the personal attacks? It's called a conversation.
Kool Bell usually doesnt mind conversing about subjects with other team fans so I guess I should have interjected his name first. That way you could just skip over my comments instead of trying to figure out if it was addressed to you.
I think you missed the point of my post...
All of the SEC schools are being monitored on how many athletes they sign. Too many = over signing. The practice of over committing is what has led to so many greyshirts, and disgruntled parents.
When a coach accepts the verbal commitment from a player, and says he has a spot for you, but he really doesn’t, that is where the problem comes in.
Come and join me at http://trackemtigers.com
I agree. Wouldn't an earlier signing period help? Thats my take.
It’s really hard to hit the number of openings right every time with overcommitting by a few. I light of that the only way to do it the correct way would be to roll the dice and be under by a scholly or two each year.
Most coaches want a December 1st early signing period...
Can’t find any real fault in that part.
But will that really curtail the “over-committing” to athletes? I don’t think so.
Come and join me at http://trackemtigers.com
The fix?
To me this problem is reduced if schools can take only 25 per year regardless of what happens throughout the year. If a kid fails to qualify on academics too bad. You should’ve spent more time recruiting a kid with better grades. If a kid gets hurt, too bad, unlucky break for you just like when you’re about to play a highly ranked team and the star RB or QB on their team gets knocked out the prior week and you caught a break. Sometimes you get one sometimes you don’t. The only downside I can really think of is that coaches might be less inclined to kick a repeat offending thug off the team if his #s aren’t high enough to field a scout team. The limit is 85 currently right? So taking 25 a year technically leaves you fat 15 players if everyone played thru all 4 years. Figure some level of attrition and I think you hover pretty close to 80-85 players in this format. 2 Deep at every position is 44 players plus kickers, punter, and deep snapper is 48. Add in 22 for the O and D scout teams and you’re only at 70. Do you REALLY need the other 10-15 players? Of course the additional players give you more room to evaluate talent. Increased volume in talent pool…but I believe that it would work. Just two cents and only worth one! This kid saban is “placing” into next years class is brilliant. I mean if I’m the kid I’m probably looking for somewhere to play this year, but if he is ok with waiting then good for him. But he MUST understand the risk that Saban could pull the offer next year and it was just a ploy to keep him from signing with a rival, etc. The truth lies somewhere in between.
"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I'm all out of bubblegum."
by tigertracker on Jan 28, 2012 10:33 PM CST up reply actions
But in order to maintain 85 players on scholarships that may force the schools to boot kids out if they underperform.
That would get ugly. As it stands now, kids leave for academic reasons, medical reasons, disciplinary reasons, and the need to get playing time at smaller programs. I think that’s enough attrition.
what you describe already happens
It just gets labeled as the other things you mentioned like medical etc. Saban is a master at this (note I’m not saying he’s breaking any rules). He capitalizes on the grey areas.
"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I'm all out of bubblegum."
by tigertracker on Jan 30, 2012 6:10 AM CST up reply actions
He probably has a heart to heart with under performers about the possibility of getting playing time elsewhere or stay on the scout team...
But not the medical issues. That’s getting into legal trouble if you try and skew those. Doctors and surgeons have to sign off on them and nobody is going to risk a medical license over helping to shuffle a college athlete out of the door.
by burmbuster on Jan 30, 2012 9:29 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The part thats difficult
is that all coaching staff still have to keep recruiting that way if one of the people they are recruiting falls through, well they still have other options open. There is always going to be the potential for one or two players getting screwed. Am I okay with that? not really… but I mean who are we kidding when we say college football is an amateur sport… Its a friggen business… and unfortunately business is ugly. It sucks. alot.
by lastmilefire on Jan 28, 2012 1:15 PM CST up reply actions
rivals is "calling" Leonard Williams for Auburn!
all this is starting to remind me of election night and the electoral votes by state … they’re also calling D G-B for arkansas
"When I can't sleep I count Tigers"
by Triumphant Tiger on Jan 28, 2012 7:24 AM CST reply actions
DGB has been an Arky lean for awhile now.
Leonard Williams would be huge for AU, as would any of their top 12 targets.
Unfortunately, it’s looking more and more like the Armstead brothers won’t be traveling across country to play at AU, according to West Coast papers.
Come and join me at http://trackemtigers.com
i'm predicting Oregon
you best believe Phil Knight has a job with benefits in a year, if the elder Armstead doesn’t make it in the NFL
"When I can't sleep I count Tigers"
by Triumphant Tiger on Jan 28, 2012 10:50 PM CST up reply actions
What did Bama do wrong with Collins?
You are such a homer. Sounds to me like Saban has told Collins exactly what he wants to do with him before Collins signs. He is being above board with him. You offer absolutely no evidence that Saban has done anything wrong, yet you call him crooked, or at least questionable. Very poor journalism. Back up your opinions with facts next time.
Go away troll..
… this is the auburn website… its ok if he is a homer, thats what we want t hear! you, however , have no business here, goodbye.
by WDEagleMatthews on Jan 28, 2012 10:56 AM CST reply actions
Typical Barn Fan
Doesn’t care about the truth, you just want to have someone make you feel good. You need to have enough integrity to look at facts objectively, or else you are worthless. BTW, I will stay on this site as long as I like. Thanks to you, I will stay on thios site to keep p***ing you off.
by ThompsonArch on Jan 28, 2012 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
Lol. The truth, huh?
How many national championships do you have again?
Pot meet kettle.
by CapnVegetto on Jan 29, 2012 8:16 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Thanks for posting this.
It needed to be said. I especially agree with:
“For any recruiter to mislead these kid’s with scholarship offers, when they may not exist, is an absolute disgrace. It’s one thing to try and sell your school, and tell them that you need them to help you win another championship, and quite another to offer a spot on the roster, and then pull it.”
That about sums it up.
AubTigerman
"The reason you come to Auburn is because of Auburn people.This is a special place, from the coaches all the way to the fans" - Andrew McCain OT
Auburn doesn't want to talk about over signing because you think it's bad
Because it’s happened at Auburn and you didn’t care
Auburn wants to talk about it now in an attempt to effect recruiting. Auburn falls off pace for a bit and suddenly you care. Surprise.
Don’t worry guys you’ll sign some big names on NSD and you won’t have to worry anymore.
People who live in glass houses should not hang out with Charles Barkley.
Stache pic upgraded to Championship mode
The fact is...
… however Saban does it, he is pulling top 3 recruiting classes every year. His tactics might are obviously more shady than most coaches, but his tactics have produced a dominant football program. Saban is not there to establish integrity and honesty. He is there to produce championships, while only bending the rules. The interpretation of his tactics are generally split between two basic types of fans:
Fan Type1: An alumni of the university. A football fan who wants a successful team, but isn’t willing to sacrifice moral standards just for wins on Saturday. Proud of there school win or lose. A unique perspective because the bond to the university is more important than the athletic program.
Fan Type2: A fan of the athletic program. A non-alumni, who subjectively chose to be a fan of the athletic program. A unique bond in that wins are all that matters, regardless of the path to victory.
These descriptions are generalizations of course, but they hold true for most universities. Neither type of fan is better or more important, but their optinions of morality in the program are usually different. Bama has far more type2 fans than most schools, so Saban’s tactics are acceptable to most. I’m sure that most type1 fans don’t like the tactics, but they’ll take the wins.
Wow,
KB has really put a bur under the saddle or some folk.
Oh, the cleverness of me!
Senior Bowl
is there gonna be a thread for the senior bowl for those of s that don’t have NFL network?
by WDEagleMatthews on Jan 28, 2012 3:16 PM CST reply actions
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