The Truth About College Football Recruiting
by Jay Coulter on Jan 30, 2012 3:00 AM CST
in Football
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PrintThis time of year is when you start to feel it. By Wednesday you know it's over. I'm of course talking about college football. With only one football game - college or pro - left on the docket, Wednesday's National Signing Day is the biggest day of the year until early September.
Like Auburn's regular season, this week's big event is expected to be more mundane than exceptional. The Tigers won't be laying claim to a top five class; and for the first time since the Tuberville era, Auburn has swung and missed more than it has hit it out of the park.
At least that's what the pundits say.
When I think of pundits these days, I immediately think of ESPN's Todd McShay. Who can forget the star quarterback of the Swampscott (MA.) High School football team screaming on every ESPN platform last year about how Cam Newton would never make it in the NFL as a quarterback?
Hey Todd: Cam says Aloha!
The same can be said for recruiting analysis, political analysis and every other ass out there. When it comes to judging future returns, you cannot simply assign a star next to someone's name and determine their future.
I say this not because Auburn is expected to "only" have a top 20 class, but because history says I'm right. Of the 25 players expected to sign with Auburn on Wednesday, only half will ever make an impact on the football field.
Coaches will soon learn that some peaked during their senior seasons of high school. Other less recruited players will blossom and grow into more than anyone expected. It's why players like the Dallas Cowboy's Demarcus Ware ended up at Troy despite being able to see Jordan-Hare Stadium from his high school practice field.
Some will not adjust to the bright lights of college football. Many will not be able to balance school and practice. And yes, some will do stupid things like commit armed robbery.
Go back a few years and you can bet Florida fans were feeling pretty heady when Cam Newton signed and was quickly anointed Tim Tebow's successor. In the long run, things worked out fine for Newton, but not so much for the Gators.
For these reasons I won't fret over Wednesday one way or the other. I remember Enterprise's Alan Evans heading to Auburn in 1982 as the nation's top running back. Once on campus he was introduced to a guy named Bo and a short time later, the toast of college football recruiting was playing in Chattanooga.
I remember as a college freshman in 1987, a quarterback named Billy Ray. He was the top player in the country and Alabama had him. He was billed as the second coming of Stabler and Namath - combined. Ray ended up wasting away at Duke. His coach never beat Auburn and left for Kentucky in shame.
Pat Dye has said repeatedly over the years that there are more than enough good players to go around and the biggest factor remains coaching. He reiterated it again last week speaking to Phillip Marshall at Auburn Undercover.
"Ain't no question about it," Dye said. "We've had two good years back to back. We'll have a good one this year. We are going to sign some good football players. When you put four or five of them together and take the top seven or eight out of each class, that's all you have to have to have a good solid football team."
Don't get me wrong. National Signing Day is fun for all fans. It's a day to celebrate the future. We take it seriously here at Track'em Tigers. KoolBell will be with you from sun up to late afternoon reporting all the news. It's one of our busiest days of the year here at TET.
Enjoy the day, but don't get too high or low. Focus on the seven or eight who'll make a difference in Auburn's program. That's the toughest part - finding those who have a head to match their talented bodies.
See you Wednesday.
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It isn't going as I envisioned it would...
And that is surprising.
If the talk is correct, there won’t be much movement in Auburn’s current position in recruiting right now. Color me disappointed.
I have to say that I think AU was hurt by the missing OC that took over 40 days to fill. Don’t misunderstand me, I think Chizik made a good hire. It’s just that the indecision for 40 days… days that are crucial in making up the mind of a kid… was too great of a curve for Auburn to overcome.
I thought for sure AU would pull some magic and get some big names to start lighting on it’s future roster. But those “big names” are going elsewhere. The thing I am most surprised it was the defensive big names that I thought would come… but they haven’t.
Unless there is MAJOR news between now and Wednesday… I suspect AU will finish with a top 25 class. There isn’t anything wrong with that. But recruiting has been such a passion for Chizik… this is a new development that I am simply not used too.
Here is a good example: LB that is instate…. 4 star…. apparently LSU is courting him big time. They already have 5 LBs on their current recruiting roster… AU needs LB big time…. however, its those that are around him that are wanting and pressuring him to go anywhere but Auburn.
How do you compete with that?
This may not be our year in recruiting. However, give us a good showing this year… and AU will be right back in the thick of it.
WDE
Two things:
I have to say that I think AU was hurt by the missing OC that took over 40 days to fill. Don’t misunderstand me, I think Chizik made a good hire. It’s just that the indecision for 40 days… days that are crucial in making up the mind of a kid… was too great of a curve for Auburn to overcome.
1) Head coaches who have short handed staffs are able to make more contact with kids. Most coaches use this as a recruiting advantage and intentionally wait to hire departed coaches.
2) Just because we didn’t find out about Auburn’s new OC until a week or two ago, doesn’t mean Chiz didn’t already have him picked out and drop his name to a few crucial recruits and ask them to keep it on the DL.
Personally, I think if Chiz saw that not naming an OC was hurting his recruiting he’d have done it sooner. I think he took the same approach as Les Miles which is he’d rather have the extra time to recruit…I could be wrong, and maybe Chiz will handle it differently next time, but Les does this every year.
Alabama fans, ask yourself this question: Is this who you want representing your University and your fanbase?
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
You maybe right about #1....
But watching this play out…in the paid sites especially… and listening to the names being tossed around… I just disagree with #2.
And listening to his comments when he hired Loeffler I think Chisik all but refutes that… but it’s just an opinion. Don’t know him personally. Yet.
WDE
It made a difference...
Period. That hurt us big time. Everybody kept saying I was nuts and to trust in Chiz and everything would be fine. Well, I sure hope I’m wrong. I don’t see us landing in the top 10 this year and that is not acceptable after a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP.
It's Auburn against the world. Good luck world.
I agree that not having an OC hurt...
… but I still expect a top 10 class.
I’m no math expert, but if Auburn signs 7-8 more recruits with the average star rating of current commits (~3.6 according to Rivals), they should easily be in the top 10-12. Getting in the top 8 seems unlikely, however, unless a couple of big names sign.
Chizik will be fine unless this sort of mis-management becomes a trend. Remember, he produced two top recruiting classes before winning the NC.
It's possible...
But a lot will have to happen for AU to get that kind of push in the next 36 hours.
From the lack of news I am seeing… and the stuff that happened over the weekend… I don’t think it will happen.
Stranger things have been known to happen. Heck, we even landed an AU man on the moon.
WDE
You guys know more than me about number 2.
But about point number 1…
It’s like clockwork every year for LSU staff hires. As soon as recruiting season is over…new staff hires.
Alabama fans, ask yourself this question: Is this who you want representing your University and your fanbase?
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
One other thing..
…..working against us is that we’re finally building some young depth. With the possible exception of linebacker, there isn’t a position on the team where a graduating high school senior has a chance to come in and play immediately. Too many talented sophomore and juniors from the last few classes have stuck with it.
......Drowning in cool elixir.
It's true. While it looks bright and shiny to have a stout class of 4's and 5's,
they still have to prove that they can work hard and get it done on the field-and keep it on the field. I would rather have a class of kids that really wants to come to Auburn. Who really want to get out there and get to work. Those are the guys that are going to make the big plays on Saturdays. The number of stars that they have will not dictate that…….
Wednesday will be exciting, because my guess is that we will get a bunch of really great kids! War Eagle!
"We see the door; we're here to knock it down"-Cam Newton
by Tiger on the mountain on Jan 30, 2012 9:04 AM CST reply actions
The real truth about recruting
is that there are exceptions at both ends of the spectrum, but you won’t find a Championship team that isn’t loaded with 4 and 5 star players on at least their starting lineup. There’s a reason coaches covet those players. It’s not an exact science, but it is factual, when it shakes out, a championship level team will be loaded with those top recruits, or at the very least their starters will be.
Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but I think AU's ranking this year is hurt by not being
able to sign the full 25 (correct me if I’m wrong on that). The average ranking of the committed players is actually quite high, but there’s just not as many of them. AU only has 15 commits, compared to that other school that has 27 (SEC signing cap be damned). However, the average star ranking of AU’s commits is 3.60 compared to Bama’s at 3.67. Not a huge difference.
Good post Jay,
I agree with the Dye quote:
Pat Dye has said repeatedly over the years that there are more than enough good players to go around and the biggest factor remains coaching…
“Ain’t no question about it,” Dye said. “We’ve had two good years back to back. We’ll have a good one this year. We are going to sign some good football players. When you put four or five of them together and take the top seven or eight out of each class, that’s all you have to have to have a good solid football team.”
Bill King said the same thing this morning on College Sports nation. You got to have some Jimmy’s & Joes but it’s not enough without coaching. Coaching trumps recruiting any day.
That being said, the VanGorder hire goes down as one of the big plusses for this recruiting year. While it won’t show up on the star rankings at the end of the day Wed, it will show up in spades the next few years.
AubTigerman
"The reason you come to Auburn is because of Auburn people.This is a special place, from the coaches all the way to the fans" - Andrew McCain OT
Absolutely agree...
Talent still has to be coached. But there’s another saying among coaches: “You can lose with talent, but you can’t win without it.”
Recruting
I agree that a number of the players will not work out and that coaching is important. That being said the better recruits that you start with, the better odds you have of having a good football team. I also think that how you recruit shows a good deal about the current state of your progam and how it is preceived at the moment. Recruting can be a good reality check!
agree... i absolutely think this is a reality check for Auburn.
we’ve missed out on a couple big uglies recently…would have loved to have picked up some momentum over the weekend.
you do it and you wipe it up.
everybody hounded me last week for being worried.
A&M and Missouri have complicated this picture for sure…as well as the new 25 limit.
there are a couple teams that AU could look to turn folk… LSU, GA Tech., and Clemson have got to be targets. AU cocahes have some serious work to do in the next couple of days.
you do it and you wipe it up.
Great article and you should repost this every year...
… regardless of Auburn’s recruiting-class ranking. Fans need to hear this when their team’s class is not top 5, and too many fans forget this when their team has a top class.
You ended with the best quote:
“finding those who have a head to match their talented bodies”
- Most people change more in their first few years away from home than any other point in their lives. Its easy to forget that and get caught up in media-based recruiting hype.
RecruitingThe recent successes of LSU and UA show what top talent AND great coaching can do.
Unfortunately for Auburn, the room for error is tiny when your top rivals show the most consistently high final team rankings and recruiting rankings. Several other programs pull top talent, but have limited on-the-field success because of average coaching (Texas, FSU, Miami to name a few).
- Quite frankly, Auburn coaching staff is good, but the coaching staffs of LSU and UA (and Arky) are just as good and they have more talent to work with right now. I believe that Chizik and co. can survive with one or two top 10ish recruiting classes. Auburn needs to recruit top talent most other years, however, because falling too far behind happens fast in the SEC west.
The reality...
We’re getting crushed right now. I always thought Deon Bush was coming here yet he chose Miami over Auburn. Think about that one for a second. Kozan actually chose Iowa over us too. From there, we couldn’t pull in Channing Ward because he went to OLE MISS? Ricardo Louis has backed off of his commitment from FSU, but I’m not sure on anything now. Arik Louis flirted for a long time with Auburn but in the end the distance was too much. We have lost all of the close battles so far.
You guys want to know when this down trend started? Anybody got a theory when Auburn just kind of seemed to lose its recruiting luster this year? I know exactly when it happened and everybody said I was nuts and over reacting. No, it worked perfectly. Just because I’m crazy a lot of the time :-D doesn’t mean I ain’t right some of the time.
It's Auburn against the world. Good luck world.
Heck...
I totally forgot about Travis Blanks. Even firm commitments Jaquay Williams and Cassanova McKinzey are now wavering in their commitments a bit. If that’s not a bad list of close but no cigar, I don’t know what is.
It's Auburn against the world. Good luck world.
Kozon chose Iowa over Auburn *and* Michigan.
The dude’s from Colorado. Don’t you think that simple geography might have played a role in this decision? Also the Hawkeyes love them some football…..I would imagine that they would show off that place well…..
While you are correct some of the time, if you keep looking under rocks, it is inevitable that all you’ll find is worms (which is great if you’re heading off to fish somewhere….).
"We see the door; we're here to knock it down"-Cam Newton
by Tiger on the mountain on Jan 30, 2012 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
When what’s-his-name from Daphne suddenly switched his commitment to Bama and subsequently enrolled with the infidels. Hence, the impetus for why we find ourselves aboard a sinking ship of despair, adrift in the sea of losers, never to find land, ever. again.
"We see the door; we're here to knock it down"-Cam Newton
by Tiger on the mountain on Jan 30, 2012 1:16 PM CST up reply actions
TJ Yeldon... TOtM
That is the name your looking for.
And while I don’t hold it against the kid… I do wonder. Which speaking of the infidels… anybody need a laugh?
Check this out: http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2012/01/alabama_commit_landon_collins_1.html
I am still laughing…
WDE
I pity the Collins kid.
He needs to be as far away from mom as possible. Talk about emotional baggage…
Yeah....
But somethings simply will not go away. Family is thicker than a university or said another way blood is thicker than water. And unless she is mentally unstable… he might be far better off just going to the local school.
To me this is the Neil Calloway scandal version 2012.
I would love to hear Nick Saban unplugged on this one. I bet I would laugh even harder if it was unedited. Too bad that won’t happen.
WDE
Yeah, let’s totes demonize the cray cray Mom, who cares about her own child’s goals as they square with the institution to which he committed. (One of those goals was playing the first year, not being ‘-shirted’).
Personally, I think that he will do fine at either school-it’s just a matter of where’s the best fit. I will be honest and say, if little ToTM ever makes a decision-like which college to go to-based on where his girlfriend goes to, I might find myself pulling a Victoria. Just sayin’. Now, where’s the straight-jacket….
"We see the door; we're here to knock it down"-Cam Newton
by Tiger on the mountain on Jan 30, 2012 3:37 PM CST up reply actions
Pulling a Victoria?
Sorry don’t understand the reference.
I think one of the issues here with the mother that most are ignoring is that she is not his primary care taker, and that he lives with his father and stepmother. It could just be a case of her getting her hopes up that he would be living back close to her. He lives in New Orleans and she is just outside BR.
This is just my personal opinion, but she doesn’t appear to very much older than her son and she could be very immature. She doesn’t seem to realize that all this negative public attention she is creating won’t help her son even if he were to choose to renege on Alabama since other schools would be afraid of the media circus she seems to selfishly attract.
by ELIminatingthecompetition on Jan 30, 2012 4:30 PM CST up reply actions
I meant pulling an 'April'.....sorry....
I actually don’t disagree with what you are saying…but, I feel like her reaction is just honest-how she felt at that moment. Many of us have them everyday…just not on videotape…..
"We see the door; we're here to knock it down"-Cam Newton
by Tiger on the mountain on Jan 30, 2012 5:05 PM CST up reply actions
TJ Yeldon...
and you’re dang right it started then. No, I’m not saying we’ll never have another great recruiting class. You know better. Hell, I said 9-3 for Auburn this year, how much more of the glass you want me to drink lol. Anyway, yes it did and we haven’t gotten a single commitment since then. In fact, we’ve only lost on commit after commit. Okay so Kozan was a geography thing, and in the end, so it was with Arik Armstead. Still, why did Deon Bush choose Miami? Eddie Goldman is now said to leaning towards FSU, believe me when I tell you he’s a program difference maker like Nick Fairley. That kid is going to be special one day. You see, I’ve been watching this whole recruiting all year since last taking notes since the last signing day. For one thing, Auburn seems to just be having terrible luck all at the same time. The two coordinators leaving, Mike Dyer transferring, O-Mac and Lutz when they thought about the NFL draft, TJ Yeldon flipping when the NIGHT BEFORE he told Auburn coaches he was 100% firmly committed to Auburn. Then we tried a few of our connections out west and we came up empty. I’m looking to be 11 or 12. I don’t see anything about 10 though and you’re not supposed to be that low after a National Championship. However, I will say on the good side of things that I’m this frustrated over a Chizik signing class, but with Tubberville I’d be thrilled.
It's Auburn against the world. Good luck world.
How is this bad luck?
O-Mac and Lutz when they thought about the NFL draft,
Yeah, it completely blows that we have solid players and leaders coming back for their senior year.
And this?:
The two coordinators leaving
Dude, we were on borrowed time with Malzahn. He wanted to be out on his own, in charge, and so he did it-at whatever cost, because it was just that damn important to him. If Roof had stayed, I know for a fact that your head would have exploded by now. Seriously.
Also as far as Dyer transferring….do you really think it’s bad luck? Loss of a great talent, yes. Elimination of a problem child that could poison the entire team, likely.
"We see the door; we're here to knock it down"-Cam Newton
by Tiger on the mountain on Jan 30, 2012 5:12 PM CST up reply actions
All of it at once...
Yes, I do think it’s bad. We will absolutely have to agree to disagree on this one because you and I are completely on different wave lengths with this one sorry I don’t see any compromise at all. I think our recruiting for 2012 is not nearly as good as it should be when this is the junior class that saw Auburn go and win the whole thing.
It's Auburn against the world. Good luck world.
An interesting article about retention of all of those stars.....
"We see the door; we're here to knock it down"-Cam Newton
by Tiger on the mountain on Jan 30, 2012 12:33 PM CST reply actions
Thats an interesting article without the sugar coating.
- I guarantee that other coaches have been using those stats to talk down Auburn this year…
I don’t think that this is an ‘Auburn-only’ problem, though. I think it’s quite common. That’s why I said what I said above….I honestly don’t think that it’s necessary to recruit by the number of ‘stars’ appearing by these kids names. Those stars designate talent as it exists today; they are not prognosticators of how solid these kids will be in the future…..
"We see the door; we're here to knock it down"-Cam Newton
by Tiger on the mountain on Jan 30, 2012 1:09 PM CST up reply actions
I’m not saying that stars don’t matter at all, but stars say nothing about the student-athletes character…the attrition rate of all of our big starred players, suggests that we should be most interested in recruiting players with both talent and character…that’s my sticking point…
"We see the door; we're here to knock it down"-Cam Newton
by Tiger on the mountain on Jan 30, 2012 2:46 PM CST up reply actions
Most schools have similar attrition stats.
But that doesn’t change the fact that Auburn has had more unsuccessful highly-rated recruits than successful ones in recent years
Recruiting rankings are over-rated and give fans something to follow while transitioning to the no-football off-season. There is an interesting article in ESPN the Mag this month about comparing recruiting rankings with winning percentages. In short, there was no correlation at all for winning percentage or important stats.
Search “five-star fiction peter keating espn” to read part of the article. All the results point to what Jay Coulter says above.. the ability to coach players is truly what matters.
"Anybody", I think that is taking it a bit far
I think the point is you don’t have to have a full roster filled with 4-5 star recruits to be successful in the SEC. The ESPN article says the same thing, In other words 5 star coaching is more important to sucess than 5 star players.
Now that the statue/altar/shrine is up, is it in Sabans contract that he gets to take it with him when he leaves?
Just to help me out
Could you find me an example of SEC team that won the SEC, or a team from anywhere that won the BCS title, that wasn’t loaded with 4 and 5 star players in say, the last 10-15 years?
I see what you are saying but I really have no idea how to find out how many stars a recruit had 15 years ago
All I am saying is that you can take a less than 5 star recruit and coach him to a higher level.
The ESPN article quotes solid numbers from about the last 6 or 7 years and found that programs like K State overachieved with players with less stars and programs like Ole Miss underachieved with lots of 4-5 star players. It also says due to that stat “Don’t hire Houston Nutt”
Now that the statue/altar/shrine is up, is it in Sabans contract that he gets to take it with him when he leaves?
AND….how many MNC’s has Georgia had with their knock-out recruiting classes…hell, how many times have they been in a MNC game??? 5 stars go to Georgia at their own peril….
"We see the door; we're here to knock it down"-Cam Newton
by Tiger on the mountain on Jan 30, 2012 3:39 PM CST up reply actions
Thank you for agreeing with me, at least I think you are.
Now that the statue/altar/shrine is up, is it in Sabans contract that he gets to take it with him when he leaves?
I am in agreement with you.....
"We see the door; we're here to knock it down"-Cam Newton
by Tiger on the mountain on Jan 30, 2012 5:12 PM CST up reply actions
You won't win a championship
without talent, and I mean 4 and 5 star players. Yes, they have to be coached up too, and you can drink the “coachin’ ’em up” kool-aid, and think we can sign a bunch of 3 star players “who want to be there” or “have good character”, and win with coaching…we can’t, nobody can.
Fact: “You can lose with talent, but you can’t win without it”
Explain Boise State to me then
For that matter K State, Rutgers, OK State, Oregon, etc. None of their rosters is littered with 4-5 star talent
Now that the statue/altar/shrine is up, is it in Sabans contract that he gets to take it with him when he leaves?
First...
you tell me what championships they’ve won. You’re reaching. Please don’t tell me you think any of those teams would have a shot at winning the SEC.
You need to go check your facts
Mark Ingram, Julio Jones, James Carpenter, Mark Barron, Luther Davis, Kareem Jackson, just to name a few off that depth chart, disagree.
I'd love to read that article. I've seen some good ones that show there is a correlation
between class ranking and winning, and a correlation between player rank and whether or not that player will be drafted in the NFL. Here’s a good one about the correlation to class ranking and winning:
http://www.sundaymorningqb.com/2008/1/21/1614/43228
Seems pretty clear that the team with the better class ranking has a distinct advantage of the team with the lower ranking, though there’s little difference between, say, the #10 ranked team and the #4 ranked team.
by TexasAUtiger on Jan 30, 2012 2:10 PM CST up reply actions
I just got the mag in the mail and read the article
It pretty well states that coaching trumps stars.
What that says to me is that programs like Boise, Rutgers, Kansas State, etc who get much less than their share of 4 and 5 star recruits just coach the ones they get better.
Now that the statue/altar/shrine is up, is it in Sabans contract that he gets to take it with him when he leaves?
I never said recruiting rankings don't matter at all.
I said their over-rated. Any player who is talented enough to play at a BCS school could be successful in the SEC with the right coaching. I just believe that coaching is more important than talent.. but you obviously need both.
Bama and LSU are examples of what can happen when great coaches get the best talent for enough consecutive years (see my comment above). Auburn can still compete in the SEC west with a recruiting class ranked #12 this year (for example) because of talent remaining from previous classes. But recruiting classes consistently ranked less than top 10 are a death wish in the SEC west these days.
The thing that scares me about that article is what it says about the character of the kids
that our coaches are recruiting. Now, I know kids will be kids and you’re always gonna get one or two that slip by your radar and turn out to be bad seeds, but the vast majority of those that are no longer on the team (or were never on it at all) are either due to discipline issues or injury. How could the coaches miss the character issues on so many of those kids? Well, either that or there’s a fundamental problem at AU where good kids come to turn bad :/ That’s unlikely, but the coaches going after talent over character seems to be the likely explanation,and we’re seeing the results of that philosophy now. I thought Tubs’ “I’ll sign any kid, regardless of grades, and hope to get them after Juco” philosophy was bad, but at least he actually did get some kids after Juco occasionally.
by TexasAUtiger on Jan 30, 2012 2:05 PM CST up reply actions
I agree. It is troublesome that we perhaps have been leaning more heavily on talent without weighing character equally. At the same time, the difficulty with all of this is that these guys are just kids. Kids will do stupid things. Really stupid things. I can almost guarantee that if the coaches thought for a second that some of their recruits had the propensity to become armed robbers, they wouldn’t have given those kids a second look. Dude, instead of stars, we really need a Minority Report.
"We see the door; we're here to knock it down"-Cam Newton
by Tiger on the mountain on Jan 30, 2012 2:54 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Let's face some bitter facts...
Most of the kids that are being recruited today are not from the best neighborhoods, schools, or families. These kids live in the worst segments of our society.
I mean nothing disrespectful about the kid or his upbringing. It’s just the way that it is…
I have said this many times but in my opinion Tuberville basically got lazy near the end. He had already gone after the low lying fruit… and used the expression “the hay is in the barn”. Shortly before and after the bowl games Tuberville could be found hunting duck in Arksansas. He accepted the recruiting situation and simply tried to make it work. He got lucky in some cases. But Tuberville would point at the kid if things didn’t work out. He really didn’t try to right size kids that could make a difference. It was just too hard to do. In the end he was basically burned by the same system he implemented. Kids would have to go JUCCO. And in some cases they never came back. The holes started adding up.
Chizik on the other hand has done his best to attack and go after qualified talent. He and his staff have successfully sold Auburn. The problem here is that the kids are still coming from some of the most economically depressed segments of our society. Some have problems that end up costing them their scholarship at Auburn. That is life.
Based upon what I have seen – you can have a duck hunter for a coach… or a hard worker who dilligently tries to get the best fit for Auburn. I will take the latter.
While the article shows the line Chizik demands to be toed while at Auburn… I would ask anyone to show me a comparison of classes that Nick Saban has recruited at Alabama. Are we insinuating that Saban’s recruits stay around longer?? To that I say poppycock!
Anyone know what Calloway is doing these days? How many snaps did he get last season?
WDE
xactly.....
"We see the door; we're here to knock it down"-Cam Newton
by Tiger on the mountain on Jan 30, 2012 3:19 PM CST up reply actions
Kicking kids off the team (or running them off with discipline) is a Catch-22.
On the one hand the Bammers will point and say AU is a bunch of thugs, but the flip-side is a coach who hands out half-game suspensions and gives Juwan Simpson an ice-cream cone :)
I would like to see the attrition rates of some other schools, that one up the road in particular. Basic math says you can’t sign 25+ each year and have them all still on an 85 man roster 4 years later.
by TexasAUtiger on Jan 30, 2012 3:28 PM CST up reply actions
That is the problem TAT
From what I understand of GC he has a military family back ground. His father was a disciplinarian. Chizik is a chip off the block.
Ultimately, I think if someone is holding the kid accountable in college (even when his own family hasn’t) it will benefit them more as a full fledged adult. I wonder with the folks AU has put into the NFL if you could compare and contrast their longevity and work ethic with other Universities?
While AU pays the price initially… in the long run, I think the kid is better off. So is society. They understand accountability. And isn’t that what parenting/colleges/countries are all about?
WDE
Channing Ward, Travis Blanks, Kozan, TJ Yeldon, Vadal Alexander...
Menelik Watson, Geno Smith, Darius Philon, Brian Poole…
Arik Armstead,
Michael Flint…
it is so hard for me to say this and hard to believe, but i do think Auburn is in need of some new branding. i think that Auburn didn’t do enough to assemble a clean package of where the program is headed. New coaches have to be turned into an updated marketing tactic(s) and strategy… and i don’t see that happening yet.
this is a time when being tight lipped and passive…gets you 2nd place all too often.
the frustration i have is that Auburn knew this was coming… way before the bowl game they had to know this coaching scenario was a realistic possibility. hell, realistically, we could have lost more than we did. The AU Ath Dpt should have pow-wowd on this months ago…and a strategy should have been put together. easier said than done… but it (IMHO) is a gross understatement to say that these coaching changes have created a hiccup ripple in the system. AU family has got to find a renewed source of motivation / identity for all to get behind.
you do it and you wipe it up.
I think I agree with you buddy...
I think Chizik was focused on the bowl, the transition, and recruiting. When he got around to getting his coordinators he focused on that too… unfortunately he took a long time in pulling the trigger (especially for the OC).
That said… it’s hard to give vision of where the program is going without some sort of frame work that reinforces the coach’s words. When kids and families don’t get this, they start looking elsewhere.
I will be surprised with a top 10 finish. It’s not IMPOSSIBLE. But it’s obvious that a lot will have to happen between now and the end of 36 hours.
WDE
RE-BRANDING!
hey … good idea! call me sometime at (334) 794-0461 and let’s discuss the idea … i have a youTube channel which has been viewed in 35 nations
"When I can't sleep I count Tigers"
by Triumphant Tiger on Jan 31, 2012 10:30 PM CST up reply actions
Holy crap
What happened to brevity?
Instead of the finger wagging…. it could have been said differently: you tend your garden and I will tend to mine. It would have definitely saved time.
LOL
WDE
Here is something folks might have missed...
Personally – I love this foundation. To each their own I guess… consider it for somthing completely different:
It doesn’t take to long before you get the gist of what is being said…. right?
WDE
by wde1988 on Jan 30, 2012 3:47 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
STEP AWAY FROM THE LEDGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Auburn has 5 – 5* recruits it’s targeting and 7 – 4* recruits. If we land one 5* and three 4* then we will be in the top 10. AU’s avg star quality places it inside the top 10 as it is now. We just lack the numbers, to fill out the class. There are zero 2* recruits on the list right now, and I will remind you that Sen’Derrick Marks was rated a 2*
As for Kozan, he would have been a good one to have, but don’t forget Patrick Miller and Shane Callahan both enrolled early, and are rated 4* O linemen.
Wednesday will be a quality day. Guaranteed!
Come and join me at http://trackemtigers.com
Brother I hear you...
But if you look closer we are outsiders on all of the bigger star talent. Not trying to be negative here – just realistic.
Do I think in 17 hours AU will have a successful recruiting class? Yes. But do I think we get that lucky to break the top 10? No. Why? To much ground to cover. And no news about folks committing to Auburn.
I do wonder though with the big names that our out there uncommitted who have bama listed… how will Satan do that to pull them in to the bama fold? He is already well over 25. Does that mean he goes to some of his 3 stars and says… “hey, if you want to play you can, but I can’t give you a scholly. Perhaps something opens up in a few years or maybe… you can go somewhere else?”
That is crap! And if it happened to my son… I promise I would villify Saban in the press as much as I possibly could.
WDE
Some of Bama's can count back to last year's class.
by tylerj19 on Jan 31, 2012 12:14 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
Come on…..they’re used to inflating numbers, all sorts of numbers. What is a signing cap going to do to that?
"We see the door; we're here to knock it down"-Cam Newton
by Tiger on the mountain on Jan 31, 2012 3:20 PM CST up reply actions
You can't honestly say that unless you know what the numbers are.
Vilify Saban all you want but he knows how to recruit. If he was treating players or recruits badly we would have heard it by now. Recruits talk alot throughout the year and at the all star games. These kids attend camps together all over the nation. If Saban was doing something like what you describe then he wouldn’t be getting the players he’s getting.
3 words
Red Elephant Club
how else do you explain a total shutout from Gadsden after that new school was built? or no Prattville players?
"When I can't sleep I count Tigers"
by Triumphant Tiger on Jan 31, 2012 10:32 PM CST up reply actions
Keeping everyone happy
Eventually someone will get upset and the wheels may come off. Seems like that the Collins kid mom is a squeaky wheel. He’s a great player, but she is trouble! Keep her away from the Plains! Peaches, too! The REC better keep up their payment plans!
why do you think they stayed after Brent Callaway until the end?
i WISH i’d printed it … but somebody on a legitimate forum claimed that he saw Brent, his dad, and a third party at a motel in the Panhandle in between the AU commitment and the final commitment
also remember … as a freshman, Julio Jones roomed with a walk-on receiver who was also the son of a REC member … somebody claimed this on paul’s show and he didn’t deny it!
how in the heck does the same person, who treated Julio & Mark to that fishing expedition, give a laptop to Jerrel Harris as a “gift”?
"When I can't sleep I count Tigers"
by Triumphant Tiger on Feb 1, 2012 12:21 AM CST up reply actions
That actually happened..
somebody on a legitimate forum claimed that he saw Brent, his dad, and a third party at a motel in the Panhandle
It was ruled a friend of the family by the compliance office at TTown. The Dad had known the guiy since his kid was in the 9th grade
Come and join me at http://trackemtigers.com
" Of the 25 players expected to sign with Auburn on Wednesday, only half will ever make an impact on the football field.
According to an article by Jon Solmon over at AL.com Auburn only has 43% of its players with the program that actually signed over the last three years. That’s a killer. Attrition has been a huge problem the last few years. Call it bad luck, poor player evaluations or whatever but you can’t sustain much if you end up with only 43% of your players over a three year period. Couple that with the small class this year due to AU not having many seniors last year and that can spell trouble. But I’m sure you all realize that Tubbs didn’t leave you with much either. His 2008 class was way under par. They have got to make sure the guys they get will be there for the long haul during the next few recruiting years or things will become really ugly.
I would ask if you looked at bama's ratio...
I read the same article. And while I can appreciate the data… it’s hard to have a true comparsion without looking only at the statistics. I would say compare ALL of the SEC teams and then make your case. Because if you are going to tell me that Saban has done better I would just have to pull a BS card.
WDE
There's an article over at 'Team Speed Kills'
that addresses some of this. They compare the attrition in the Florida recruiting classes to ours……
"We see the door; we're here to knock it down"-Cam Newton
by Tiger on the mountain on Jan 31, 2012 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
"We see the door; we're here to knock it down"-Cam Newton
by Tiger on the mountain on Jan 31, 2012 12:56 PM CST up reply actions
I didn't say Saban has recruited better but he has. Our retention is also better than 43% over the past 3 years so take it for what it's worth.
It’s a lot like Kool Bell talking about oversigning yet Auburn has signed more recuits than we have over the last three years. I’m not here to rattle the trees, just giving a perspective. Auburn can turn it around but you have to wonder why this class is not up to par for a team that won the crystal ball last year. And the players that were lost from attrition were not bad athletes. Most had character issues or academic issues. Several signed and never made it on the field. If it happened in Tuscaloosa I would question it as well.
Thanks for bringing up McShay
That guy’s NFL draft skills are laughable. He has been wrong on so many prospects for the past three years that I have followed ESPN draft analysts that its funny. So even though I knew that Cam would be a stud this year because of how hard he works, when McShay blasted him constantly, I really knew that he would have a special year. Its like whatever he says, take the opposite and apply it.
Even if we only sign a few more 4 star players and the Moore kid (he is a 3 star but only because he is raw), we will have filled our needs which is the most important thing about signing day. As long as coach Chizik doesn’t have to give some kid’s girlfriend a job to get him here.
In a Class of Their Own!
Does anyone recall that the Bamers accused us of unethical recruting because we ignored Brent Calloway’s family and went straight to Brent? These are the same Bamers on RTR that are making fun of Landon Collins mom for telling the truth about Sabin and not wanting her son to be associated with Sabin or the Bamer program. The Bamers are showing a complete disrespect for his family and their wishes.
Can anyone say blind arrogance and hypocrisy?
by plains74 on Jan 31, 2012 7:56 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
By the way, in case you guys missed it, Jordan Moore picked TCU and thank you colonel I agree with you totally.
I’m going to keep harping and screaming the more we lose recruits. If we have a terrible day tomorrow, I will not shut up until August as recruiting is the FUTURE of your program. A full year of recruits is much, much bigger than two coordinators. Especially, when one of those you interviewed in the first place and then came back to him a month later. I’m sorry, it just looks like the ball was dropped this time around but as I have said, I’m quite willing to eat A HUGE BOWL OF CROW if Auburn does great tomorrow. God knows, I want to be wrong about tomorrow so bad it hurts. But, you guys are simply unaware of how ONE RECRUITING year can devastate a program. Need I remind you, we’re competing in the BEST CONFERENCE, AND IN ITS BEST DIVISION. All I kept hearing was how recruiting for 2008 was to blame for this season and not the coaches. Well then, have you folks not realized if you are right on that there is a possibility with the way things are going we will have that same thing happen in 2016?
Now let me be clear, I’m not there…yet. I really, don’t want to see that. I doubt that will happen honestly before you people try to claim that I’m saying the Auburn program is doomed. I’m not saying that at all. What I’m saying: Chizik really dropped the ball this time taking way too long on the coordinators. TJ Yeldon flipping when he did really hurt us. We spent too much time on high prospects that we knew probably would never move from the west. I love the recruits we did get and I REALLY hope they keep their commitment. If they don’t, you will see a mighty tough year in 2016 or maybe even 2015 and 2016. I don’t like the thought of that at all.
It's Auburn against the world. Good luck world.
Two things...
TJ Yeldon never intended to come to Auburn. It was a rouge.
The way you are wording your comment above, seems like you think the commits we do have are not very good. If you were a recruit, and you visited this site, and read what you posted, what would you think?
I have to say, that I think the recruits we do have committed are top notch. They are Auburn men, and they will not be the ruin of Auburn football, nor will their coach. Just the opposite, they will be SEC Champions one day soon!
Just sayin’…
Come and join me at http://trackemtigers.com
by KoolBell777 on Jan 31, 2012 10:30 PM CST up reply actions
If I were a recruit...
I wouldn’t care what somebody on a message board said-just sayin. If I did, then I certainly wouldn’t go to Alabama where the folks over there at RTR would drive any sensible person as far away from Tuscaloosa as the American Air Force could allow. Sorry, I just don’t agree at all KB. Look-I have said a multitude of times that I like Gene Chizik. I sincerely do. What I’m saying is, he’s not perfect even in the realm of being a head coach. He made a bad decision this time. That doesn’t mean I don’t like him. I just think it was the wrong thing to do. He just took too long and we never got it rolling again. Now that said, I will say again: I VERY MUCH HOPE TOMORROW IS INCREDIBLE. Furthermore, I never said these recruits we have here are bad. I said we should have more and that some of the ones we do have actually were not the most steadfast with their commitments. That’s the way I see it.
It's Auburn against the world. Good luck world.
add Westerman, Robinson, Frost and Grant to tomorrow's group as well!
and if Mike Blakeley’s the real deal that’s even better!
"When I can't sleep I count Tigers"
by Triumphant Tiger on Jan 31, 2012 10:35 PM CST reply actions
I realize this is a mighty bold statement...
I honestly think each one of those kids will have the choice of being drafted fairly high in their junior year if they can stay healthy. If that is the case, that’s some mighty big upperclassmen shoes that Auburn needs to fill for 2016 as again it will be lack experience and leadership. You know, how we had that issue in 2011 I don’t want it again. I hope if we do like I think we will tomorrow that we stack up the best JUCO’s we can find.
It's Auburn against the world. Good luck world.
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